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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1494326
09/28/13 10:35 AM
09/28/13 10:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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You would be hard pressed to build any old car for 25 grand that could outrun that black Gt track pack car.
Hard pressed, but not impossible. I'll take that bet, but at 30K. Only way you'd get into that GT for 25K is if the sticker was 20.
As long as you dont hold me to a new paint job... i love my patina and fade...
The new ones have a couple key things going against them... one, the weight (sooo many mandatory options and safety BS the old cars dont have), and they come with smaller tires than they should, considering the dimensions ov the car (though i see a few posts below the one i quoted a way to get wider stuff on the car already available, but then that adds to the 30K ceiling). Even the height works against them comparatively... they are tall cars. I had no idea how big they were until i parked my 96 beside one... that was an eye-opener.
It could be a good battle/experiment...
Gee, hedging your bet any? Add $5k and keep the patina? If you couldn't do it with those parameters you'd be a clown.
Nope. No more than you could OWN a brand new GT track car for 25K anyways. When i buy parts i have to pay taxes on them, plus other levies, but if i buy a brand new car i dont...??? Lets be fair now. As for patina, you couldn't buy that look for 20K, and many pathetic posers have tried. Mines free and i'll take it over a 10K rotisserie job anyday. But hey... i'm weird that way...
And call me even weirder, but i kinda like that new Mustang rendering... if thats what the thing will actually look like. Ford been 'retro' since the 1994 model came out (yes, it started in '94... i have the ads)... and i think its time for some progress. Besides, what more can they do? they've hit all the best old designs. Whats the next logical progression? a 2015 retro Mustang that looks like a Mustang II...??? Hahahahaha
My quote on the Mustang was for "that black" GT in the ebay link. You can pick up low mileage track pack mustangs for $25k these days, maybe even less.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1494327
09/28/13 10:47 AM
09/28/13 10:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
Nope. No more than you could OWN a brand new GT track car for 25K anyways.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2012-Must...forcev4exp=true
Pale Roader, here is the 2012 Mustang GT Track Car we are talking about for 25K. If my 72 Road Runner was sold this car would be in my garage.
Today Mitch is coming over to check out some parts I have for sale and get this 72 Road Runner closer to stock for the sale.....
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Pale_Roader]
#1494328
09/28/13 11:14 AM
09/28/13 11:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
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About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
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Quote:
Nope. No more than you could OWN a brand new GT track car for 25K anyways. When i buy parts i have to pay taxes on them, plus other levies, but if i buy a brand new car i dont...??? Lets be fair now. As for patina, you couldn't buy that look for 20K, and many pathetic posers have tried. Mines free and i'll take it over a 10K rotisserie job anyday. But hey... i'm weird that way...
Weird? Yes, patina to me mean POS beater car. Too lazy/cheap to do it right.
I will say again, you could not match the track car for $25k in all aspects and if you couldn't go/stop/turn as fast for $30k you are a clown. But if you want to call taxes on this then you gotta meet ALL aspects, interior, paint, electronic goodies, etc. You cannot do it legit.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Supercuda]
#1494329
09/28/13 11:52 AM
09/28/13 11:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Heck the price of a front brake kit and your already at... $2500.00 http://www.americanmuscle.com/brembo-mustang-gt500-brake-kit.htmlHow much are the rear brakes lets go cheap at $650.00 Wheels another $1,000. That is with 4 wheels no spare. Tires another $1000.00 Again no spare figured in here you guys all like 315 series tires in 18" or larger diameter wheels So just with brakes, wheels and tires your over $5,000.00 I remember an article years ago totaling what it would cost if you purchased all the parts to assemble a complete Ford Pinto vs just buying the car at the dealership. The cost was an eye opener. Why does it cost so much....well for one the factory is buying the parts at a deep discount since they are purchasing in volume. Even if you built a dozen cars and purchased a dozen of each item it isn't going to compare to purchasing parts by the train cars in volume. So good luck with the build of the ultimate handling lightweight car starting with a 40 plus year old stripped out shell filled with space age materials for 25K. Build the website and document the progress and post the link along with the spreadsheet of the cost of each component. And I take it your time is worth $0.00 when you do this build, correct? Because last I checked Ford is paying scale union wages to employees and the other vendors that supply sub assemblies are paying a wage to the workers as well. If your time is donated to the build then we have to subtract the wages from the cost of a Ford Mustang as well to do a true comparison.....on your terms. 
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494330
09/28/13 12:03 PM
09/28/13 12:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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My quick and easy Google search is showing most American cars today cost $1,500 in labor to build. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/20...rican-cars-did/If your build your car at shop rate $85.00 per labor hour that is just over 17 hours or 2 work days for work. So we can either run this exercise on the reality that you lost because there is no way one man can build an entire car in 2 shifts of work. Or we subtract the labor out of that 25,000 starting price and now your new target is 23,500.00 to build the ultimate handling Mopar from a bare 40 plus year old shell and fill it with space age materials....making it stop, handle, run at the track better than that 25K Mustang Track Pack car we can all hit the buy it now button on at Ebay......
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494331
09/28/13 12:19 PM
09/28/13 12:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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From this link here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Automobile_Workers"UAW has been credited for aiding in the auto industry rebound in the 21st century and blamed for seeking generous benefit packages in the past which in part led to the automotive industry crisis of 2008-2009. UAW workers receiving generous benefit packages when compared with those working at non-union Japanese auto assembly plants in the U.S., had been cited as a primary reason for the cost differential before the 2009 restructuring. In a November 23, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that the average UAW worker was paid $70 per hour, including health and pension costs" So I was figuring #85 an hour in todays dollars and that should be close as they are citing total cost for Ford to employ a UAW worker is $70 per hour in 2008....
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494332
09/28/13 04:00 PM
09/28/13 04:00 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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$23.5k is more than enough to get the parts and assemble a track car that can out handle the new mustang. But if you ask it to be the complete package with creature comforts and all, forget about it.
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Uhcoog1]
#1494333
09/28/13 04:23 PM
09/28/13 04:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Show me where I can get a set of sticky 18" tires for $1000 a set. Anyway id still rather put 10k in mods in my old iron than anything new.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494336
09/28/13 07:31 PM
09/28/13 07:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
67autocross
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,074
Manitoba Canada
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Well as they say ...talks cheap, so someone please step up and build this $ 25K mopar that can kill a track pack mustang.
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: 67autocross]
#1494338
09/28/13 08:19 PM
09/28/13 08:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
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You would be hard pressed to build any old car for 25 grand that could outrun that black Gt track pack car.
Hard pressed, but not impossible. I'll take that bet, but at 30K. Only way you'd get into that GT for 25K is if the sticker was 20.
As long as you dont hold me to a new paint job... i love my patina and fade...
The new ones have a couple key things going against them... one, the weight (sooo many mandatory options and safety BS the old cars dont have), and they come with smaller tires than they should, considering the dimensions ov the car (though i see a few posts below the one i quoted a way to get wider stuff on the car already available, but then that adds to the 30K ceiling). Even the height works against them comparatively... they are tall cars. I had no idea how big they were until i parked my 96 beside one... that was an eye-opener.
It could be a good battle/experiment...
Gee, hedging your bet any? Add $5k and keep the patina? If you couldn't do it with those parameters you'd be a clown.
Nope. No more than you could OWN a brand new GT track car for 25K anyways. When i buy parts i have to pay taxes on them, plus other levies, but if i buy a brand new car i dont...??? Lets be fair now. As for patina, you couldn't buy that look for 20K, and many pathetic posers have tried. Mines free and i'll take it over a 10K rotisserie job anyday. But hey... i'm weird that way...
And call me even weirder, but i kinda like that new Mustang rendering... if thats what the thing will actually look like. Ford been 'retro' since the 1994 model came out (yes, it started in '94... i have the ads)... and i think its time for some progress. Besides, what more can they do? they've hit all the best old designs. Whats the next logical progression? a 2015 retro Mustang that looks like a Mustang II...??? Hahahahaha
My quote on the Mustang was for "that black" GT in the ebay link. You can pick up low mileage track pack mustangs for $25k these days, maybe even less.
Okay, my bad, i didn't actually read it, just thought it was brand new. But on the other hand, its got what looks like a good amount ov money already spent on upgrades... You keep moving the goal. Do i get to start with a car with some work done?
Unless you just mean any used (stock) track pack GT for 25K, which i'll concede. But that was kinda my other point too... better off starting with a next to new very low mile car... saves a LOT ov money, in this case, at least 5K.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Supercuda]
#1494339
09/28/13 08:31 PM
09/28/13 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Quote:
Nope. No more than you could OWN a brand new GT track car for 25K anyways. When i buy parts i have to pay taxes on them, plus other levies, but if i buy a brand new car i dont...??? Lets be fair now. As for patina, you couldn't buy that look for 20K, and many pathetic posers have tried. Mines free and i'll take it over a 10K rotisserie job anyday. But hey... i'm weird that way...
Weird? Yes, patina to me mean POS beater car. Too lazy/cheap to do it right.
Nope and nope. If i liked pretty cars, i'd spend the money or time. I dont, my thoughts on this are well documented here, its not just an excuse to win some silly interweb debate.
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I will say again, you could not match the track car for $25k in all aspects and if you couldn't go/stop/turn as fast for $30k you are a clown. But if you want to call taxes on this then you gotta meet ALL aspects, interior, paint, electronic goodies, etc. You cannot do it legit.
And no again. Unless you can find a way to own that car without paying the taxes, they count. I've already conceded that most people couldn't/wouldn't do it, just that i think I could. Suddenly everyone is trying to get so personal about it.
And no one said anything about 'full of space age' goodies. It will have what it has... as much as i can afford at the time (or as much as the budget allowed if i were to actually take this bet). E-berg proved you dont need space-age to beat space age.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1494340
09/28/13 08:34 PM
09/28/13 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Show me where I can get a set of sticky 18" tires for $1000 a set. Anyway id still rather put 10k in mods in my old iron than anything new.
Tire Rack.
You can, and in a size decent enough for your car too, but certainly not in the steamroller size you have on there now. You gotta pay for that kind ov cool...
Just priced out a new set ov superwide BFG Rivals 295/335 18... $1350ish. Not a grand, but close. You could 4-corner some 275's in that tire for under $1100 shipped. Thats a LOT ov tire for that money i think.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494342
09/28/13 09:27 PM
09/28/13 09:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I'm an engineering student.....space age materials sound really cool. Titanium valves, magnesium wheels and pretty soon the entire project is out in the unobtainiumsphere.....
Hah! Well no [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] ! I want BBS F1's in magnesium with Pirelli 355's on all 4 corners! Oh wait... there goes my entire budget...
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