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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: 2cudabuck]
#149365
11/11/08 06:41 PM
11/11/08 06:41 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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70 Challenger 340 With carb many years ago (15+)  With EFI more recently  It is a lot of work, but definitely doable. If you plan on using a carb setup, your chances of success get very low. I don't personally like the remote turbos, but for a very mild street setup they are usable.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: flatlinedude]
#149368
11/11/08 11:22 PM
11/11/08 11:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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I got tired of trying to get the carb tuned right on the TT440 and went EFI.
Carbs can be made to work but I think I'll keep the EFI.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: flatlinedude]
#149369
11/11/08 11:43 PM
11/11/08 11:43 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
Quote:
If you plan on using a carb setup, your chances of success get very low.
Maybe 15+ years ago. Today there are many, MANY people blowing boost through carbs with good results. A close friend of mine is one of them, running 9's in street trim. Nice car booster, what does it run in the quarter?
Carbs have gotten better, but unfortunately, the laws of physics haven't changed in 15 years. Carbs work on velocity, not mass, so you are really limited in ways to get the correct mixture when NA and under boost, especially once you get over 8 psi or so.
A drag race car is totally another matter. You don't have to worry about NA performance or transitions, or street manners. Tuning a turbo/carb drag car is not really difficult, I suppose I should have made that clear.
I have been down the carb route several times, more successful than most, but still not good enough for me, and I have had the "pleasure?" of watching others try over the years. I can honestly say I have never seen one on the street for more than 2 years (except mine that went 4), before folks grenaded them or gave up on driveability issues.
Feets can fill you in on his adventures with carbs. I was lucky and already on EFI as he was going through his development, but I knew what he was going through.
I am intercooled and water injected for detonation control.
It has never run at the drag strip as it is more setup for the road. Manual 5 speed and 2.76 gears, heavy suspension, Z rated tires. If you have ever driven a turbo manual rear drive, you quickly find out how difficult the are to launch decently. Bog or Burn, not much in between.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: 68Bullit]
#149372
11/12/08 04:22 AM
11/12/08 04:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Sorry to barge in, but was wondering what "remote" turbo is.
SDS Turbo sells them. It's a turbo that mounts way back by your rear axle or gas tank. Can run a single or twins. Adds in a bunch of extra piping, and an electric oil pump to move the oil from the turbo return back to the pan. They claim to specially build their turbos to not lag excessively for being so far back from the engine. Problem with that on a mopar is, to get room, you pretty much have to yank the gas tank and put the turbos there. Then put a fuel cell in the trunk and install a bulkhead behind the rear seat so the track will let you run.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
#149373
11/12/08 09:19 AM
11/12/08 09:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
70 Challenger 340
With carb many years ago (15+)
With EFI more recently
It is a lot of work, but definitely doable. If you plan on using a carb setup, your chances of success get very low.
I don't personally like the remote turbos, but for a very mild street setup they are usable.
You can run a carb with no problems and certainly save yourself a ton of money. Unless you are going to run over 10lbs of boost a carb is fine. If it is set-up right you will have no problems. I ran my S/C'd 440 in hot, cold, wet weather with 0 problems.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#149374
11/12/08 11:43 AM
11/12/08 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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8 psi wasn't too much of a problem with the carb. Running higher pressures required an extra injector or very poor drivability and frequent plug changes.
My carb tuning skills leave a bit to be desired so that certainly didn't help.
As for the Electromotive system, it would be nice if someone local was familiar with it. I had major issues tuning it so a visit was made to an expert 5 hours away.
That's where we discovered the fuel pressure regulator was failing under boost.
After replacing it, I did a quickie tune and it's running much better. I have yet to put much time into perfecting the tune. There's plenty of power left on the table. I simply need to spend a little time to dig it out.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#149375
11/12/08 12:15 PM
11/12/08 12:15 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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You can run a carb with no problems and certainly save yourself a ton of money. Unless you are going to run over 10lbs of boost a carb is fine. If it is set-up right you will have no problems. I ran my S/C'd 440 in hot, cold, wet weather with 0 problems.
More power to you (pun intended) if you are happy with how you can make a boosted carb work. As we said earlier, up to 8 (maybe 10) you can get by. You still have the mixture issues, but the richening it takes to run OK under boost isn't enough to totally drown the engine under other conditions. The problem is still there and cost you fuel and plugs (like feets).Where it really shows up is in "on/off" throttle conditions where you feather the throttle. Since you have to do you richening in the power circuits and secondaries, if you feather enough that they close, you go way lean, unless you have the whole setup running really rich.
I have seen/ridden in/driven quite a few setups that folks said "ran perfect", that IMHO were far from what I would call good driveability.
Remember that somehow you have to trick the carb into delivering more than twice as much fuel (at 15 psi) than at cruise, when it is seeing pretty much the exact same conditions (velocity at a given rpm).
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
#149376
11/12/08 12:22 PM
11/12/08 12:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
You can run a carb with no problems and certainly save yourself a ton of money. Unless you are going to run over 10lbs of boost a carb is fine. If it is set-up right you will have no problems. I ran my S/C'd 440 in hot, cold, wet weather with 0 problems.
More power to you (pun intended) if you are happy with how you can make a boosted carb work. As we said earlier, up to 8 (maybe 10) you can get by. You still have the mixture issues, but the richening it takes to run OK under boost isn't enough to totally drown the engine under other conditions. The problem is still there and cost you fuel and plugs (like feets).Where it really shows up is in "on/off" throttle conditions where you feather the throttle. Since you have to do you richening in the power circuits and secondaries, if you feather enough that they close, you go way lean, unless you have the whole setup running really rich.
I have seen/ridden in/driven quite a few setups that folks said "ran perfect", that IMHO were far from what I would call good driveability.
Remember that somehow you have to trick the carb into delivering more than twice as much fuel (at 15 psi) than at cruise, when it is seeing pretty much the exact same conditions (velocity at a given rpm).
Yeah I wouldn't go over 8 w/ a carb but I've seen it done. My car was a very mild set-up and actually didn't see boost until vacuum went to zero. So even at highway speeds I was using little if any boost. The car was very drivable and it was like having a 150 shot anytime your foot hit the floor. Boost is a great way to improve HP and torque.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
#149377
11/12/08 12:29 PM
11/12/08 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
Rug_Trucker
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,610
Not2farfromNashville, TN
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Even though there is lots of room for a turbo on a slant, I like the idea of a rear mount.
Lots of nay sayers on that subject........
"The only thing to do for triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
"NUNQUAM NON PARATUS!"
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: Rug_Trucker]
#149378
11/13/08 12:16 AM
11/13/08 12:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 173
Tucson AZ
2cudabuck
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 173
Tucson AZ
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Sorry all, been out of the office for a day, missed alot of this thread. I have been talking extensively with STS, they actually recommend a carb for about 6-8 pounds of boost. At least for me they did. They seem to have it dialed in. I just want to make my 70 different, and keep in mind, one of my major goals here is to combat the altitude I live at, about 8000 feet. Lets here everyones input on that aspect of the equation too! Really though, I have a O2 sensor in the headers for tuning, want to run about 7 pounds, and like a wow factor. Whatcha all think!?!?
And by the way, I would rather put the turbo in the engine compartment, your right, mighty tight out back, and have TONS of room under the hood.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: 2cudabuck]
#149379
11/13/08 12:32 AM
11/13/08 12:32 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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You are way, way better off with the turbo under the hood. The closer the turbo to the head and the shorter all the piping is, the more efficient you will be. Most of what the remote boys feed you on sizing, lag, and efficiecy are "exaggerated", IMHO.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
#149380
11/13/08 06:15 AM
11/13/08 06:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9
Finland
janimm
member
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member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 9
Finland
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My single turbo -73 cuda.
360cid V8 + A-833 4-speed manual
MegaSquirt II, 3.57 PCB, 2.883
Ford EDIS8
Innovate LC-1 + Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor
Holset HX50 turbo
I'm very happy with it, runs great as a daily driver. Currently running 11psi boost.
Last edited by janimm; 07/16/18 10:22 AM.
@realdashdev
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#149383
11/13/08 07:31 PM
11/13/08 07:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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Swingin... I had $3500 in my first TT440. That included the full engine rebuild (including machining costs), custom cam, wastegates, and custom hybrid turbos.
No junkyard parts were used except engine core.
What did your complete engine build with blower cost?
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: feets]
#149384
11/14/08 08:19 AM
11/14/08 08:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Swingin... I had $3500 in my first TT440. That included the full engine rebuild (including machining costs), custom cam, wastegates, and custom hybrid turbos.
No junkyard parts were used except engine core.
What did your complete engine build with blower cost?
yes but you can do all the fab work yourself. cutting welding bending can get expensive if you can't do it all yourself. I had about $2200 in the complete set-up including fuel system upgrades, gauges, bungs, piping, carb prep and so on. I probably could have saved a few hundred if I welded the tubing.
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Re: Turbo on 70 Cuda 318
[Re: 2cudabuck]
#149385
11/14/08 08:21 AM
11/14/08 08:21 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
ya know Swingin, you may be on to something there. Maybe I better start talking to the supercharger store or anyone have any other people they like to deal with?
I'd look on e-bay 1st. There was even a guy on here that had a S/C kit for a SB for around $1200. The supercharger store is very expensive.
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