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whine unless clutch pushed in #1477346
07/31/13 10:50 PM
07/31/13 10:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
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r3dplanet Offline OP
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r3dplanet  Offline OP
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Hi there.

I have a '65 Barracuda with a newly built 360 and an A833-OD gearbox. The car has been complete for more than a year but I've been slowly chasing a few gremlins and sounds resulting from changing so much equipment. Last year I replaced the radiator, engine, carburetor, intake, power steering (pump, gear, and hydrobooster), aluminum bellhousing, gearbox, driveline, front disc brake conversion, 8-3/4" rear diff, and exhaust. I'm still stuck with the 273 manifolds but that's a discussion for another time.

I have a clear problem where I hear an distinct engine whine that's hard to echo-locate, but it seems to come from the rear of the engine about where it meets the firewall. The pitch of the whine corresponds to the rpms - so at 3,000 rpms the whine is the same note. When the car starts in gear from a dead stop and the revs build up, I hear a corresponding whine. The same happens in second, third, and fourth. That is, as the speed of the engine increases so does the pitch of the whine. I can even hear it in neutral a little. BUT when I push in the clutch ( a new Centerforce 10.5" clutch ) the whine disappears. It also disappears when I push in the clutch to change gears.

What can this be? The shop who rebuilt my gearbox absolutely maintains that it isn't the transmission. So I'm wondering what it might be now - throwout bearing? Input shaft? Crank bushing? Z-bar? Clutch fork? I've been trying to figure this out for a while but I'm out of ideas.

Thanks for any insight,
Marcus

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: r3dplanet] #1477347
07/31/13 11:12 PM
07/31/13 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
super stock
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Amherst,NY
sounds like the throwout bearing or a bearing in the trans.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: challengermike] #1477348
07/31/13 11:26 PM
07/31/13 11:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
340SHORTY  Offline
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Kent, Wa
Quote:

sounds like the throwout bearing or a bearing in the trans.




or a miss adjusted clutch..


I am truckless..
Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: 340SHORTY] #1477349
07/31/13 11:56 PM
07/31/13 11:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Sounds like the throwout bearing is touching the clutch fingers when the clutch is released to me.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: Supercuda] #1477350
08/01/13 01:07 AM
08/01/13 01:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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I am not a clutch guy but what Supercuda said, I'd shorten the clutch fork threaded adjuster rod to get the throwout bearing off of the fingers & see if it dissappears. Do ya feel lucky. Count the # of turns to easily return it to its' original length if that ain't it


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: RapidRobert] #1477351
08/01/13 01:52 AM
08/01/13 01:52 AM
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r3dplanet Offline OP
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Very good. The clutch pedal itself feels perfect with just the right amount of free play. But tomorrow I'll loosen up the adjuster and see what happens.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: r3dplanet] #1477352
08/01/13 01:59 AM
08/01/13 01:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 125
kalispell montana
jwilson 61 Offline
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jwilson 61  Offline
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kalispell montana
Transmission input bearing if it goes away with clutch pushed in


70 cuda 440 6bbl Auto with a dana 60
68 road runner QQ1 383 auto
1970 6 barrel 4 speed Superbird FY1 number matching
15 Challenger 6.4 SRT pearl White 6 Speed
72 Cuda 440 5 speed
71 Road Runner 440 4 speed
Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: jwilson 61] #1477353
08/01/13 07:53 AM
08/01/13 07:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Newfoundland
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mopar_man Offline
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Newfoundland
Usually when the throw -out bearing is failing it starts to whine when the clutch is released. it is possible that it is failing and the T/O bearing is still touching the fingers when released causing it to whine .
And of course it could be the front bearing in the tranny.
It could also be crank related, when you press the clutch in, it tries to push the crank forward and it will if the truss bearing is bad but when you release the clutch the crank will return to the Goldylocks zone (lol) and the whining starts again

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: r3dplanet] #1477354
08/01/13 10:01 AM
08/01/13 10:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda Offline
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Quote:

Very good. The clutch pedal itself feels perfect with just the right amount of free play. But tomorrow I'll loosen up the adjuster and see what happens.




Best way to set clutch free play is at the clutch, not the pedal. Shoot for a .060" gap with the pedal fully depressed. Then release the pedal and make sure the TO bearing is not riding on the fingers.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: challengermike] #1477355
08/01/13 10:10 AM
08/01/13 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

sounds like the throwout bearing or a bearing in the trans.




Trans , TO bearing would make noise when he pushed in the clutch.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: JohnRR] #1477356
08/01/13 06:28 PM
08/01/13 06:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
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Amherst,NY
Quote:

Quote:

sounds like the throwout bearing or a bearing in the trans.




Trans , TO bearing would make noise when he pushed in the clutch.





But it could be not adjusted correctly and turning all the time. Its hard to diag a problem like this from a computer. But I agree it wouldn't make noise when its not touching.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: Supercuda] #1477357
08/01/13 10:02 PM
08/01/13 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Quote:

Quote:

Very good. The clutch pedal itself feels perfect with just the right amount of free play. But tomorrow I'll loosen up the adjuster and see what happens.




Best way to set clutch free play is at the clutch, not the pedal. Shoot for a .060" gap with the pedal fully depressed. Then release the pedal and make sure the TO bearing is not riding on the fingers.




Free play @ the pedal has litle relevance with 40 year old parts..
Crawl underneath, pull the clutch cover and adjust the rod so that the throwout bearing is pulled back from the pressure plate about 1/8"....

Just my $0.02...

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: Sinitro] #1477358
08/02/13 11:24 PM
08/02/13 11:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 343
Pennsylvania
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hemi67 Offline
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I am not sure if its possible on a mopar small block, but I can tell you what I just went through with my Hemi. I had the exact same issue and thought it was something in the throwout bearing/clutch/input shaft bearing etc. Went nuts trying to locate it. It turned out being a bad balancer!!. The rubber elasomer in the balancer failed and allowed the outer ring of the balancer to work its way rearward and start rubbing against the timing cover making a similar noise. When I pushed in the clutch, it moved the crank forward just enough to move the balancer away from the timing cover and the noise stopped. Drove us crazy. Check your harmonic balancer before you tear the drivetrain apart!!!
good luck.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: hemi67] #1477359
08/03/13 09:09 AM
08/03/13 09:09 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 286
Catskill, NY
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teflon Offline
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Catskill, NY
Input shaft bearing.

Re: whine unless clutch pushed in [Re: r3dplanet] #1477360
08/04/13 10:09 PM
08/04/13 10:09 PM
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Posts: 14
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r3dplanet Offline OP
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Everyone, thanks for the excellent information. I popped off my inspection cover and made sure to adjust the clutch disc to have .050" of clearance. I also heated and bended the threaded adjuster rod to make a more positive angle. It feels great. But because of the bend, I can't adjust any more clearance or rod hits the exhaust but it seems perfect.

The noise is still there, but I came to discover that the whine disappears if I remove the power steering belt. And I've already had the pump rebuilt twice. Lousy.

The best news that I found that the input shaft is weeping. After having the gearbox rebuilt. Twice in one year. I can't ever seem to win.

Anyway, it looks like the culprit is hydraulic, not gear related.

Thanks again!







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