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New cam a wee bit tight? #1471949 07/22/13 01:27 AM 07/22/13 01:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	New comp 274,1 new cam bearing (1st one, dont ask) cam goes in pretty smooth,gets a tiny bit tight the last 1/2 of the last bearing. Pulled it back out, wiped off all the red assembly lube,oiled with 30 wt,slid back in, same. Cannot turn just with fingers,no sprocket installed, (just a bolt). Put a small torque wrench on it just to see the breakaway torque,takes between 35-40 inch lbs to get it turning,turns very smooth and easy after that,when you stop,same thing again. (Cannot turn with fingers at any time, but turns easily with 11/16" open hand once you get past the "sticky" start torque.Position doesnt matter, same no matter where you start or stop. So what, polish cam journal(s) with light oil and dead 400? Concentrate on the 1st(new bearing) journal 1st?Any more checks I can make?Suggestions? Thanks, Bear. I'm 55 now, no time to waste. Not a week goes by that I don't hear about someone passing on.Let's get out there,smoke some tires,have a beer with a good friend,do what you have always wanted to do.I am pretty sure no one will ever say on their deathbed "gee I'm glad my life was calm and boring"

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471950 07/22/13 09:47 AM 07/22/13 09:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	I'd say you're OK as is. If anything I'd maybe SLIGHTLY polish that front journal a bit. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: RapidRobert] #1471951 07/22/13 11:57 AM 07/22/13 11:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl B bonefish master
bonefish master B Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,274 s.w.fl	its hard too say witch bearing is snug,ive hadem like that before and just ran it no probs.but without actually feeling it myself its a tough call.you could take a fine brake hone and just turn it by hand once you find the tight bearing.

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471952 07/22/13 03:28 PM 07/22/13 03:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,218 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,218 Bend,OR USA	BB Mopar are famous for having the cam tunnel not machined to the proper size from the factory I now install one bearing at a time and test fit the cam, if it is good I install the next one and so on unless I find a tight one, if and when( 3 out of 10 blocks will have a tight one ) I find a tight one I use a bearing knife to scrape the high spots off, they will shine at you until the cam spins freely by hand like your trying to do I don't like using any abrassive stones or papers that may leave some abrrassive material in the soft cam bearings One of the machine shops I use to use in Orange County, CA would use a brake or small cylinder hone on the bad cam tunnel holes to bring them up to the proper sizes and I.D. He would then installed the new cam bearings, I never had a problem with them done that way Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: bonefish] #1471953 07/22/13 03:53 PM 07/22/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	Got a machinist coming if I wait that long...I might LIGHTLY and Carefully polish the #1 cam journal itself (right terminology?cam itself not the bearing...)and see if she frees up.Machinist says it is probably OK as -is (without seeing it personally yet), but I could try a light polish,as above, he does not think it will help or hurt,but OK to try. I'm 55 now, no time to waste. Not a week goes by that I don't hear about someone passing on.Let's get out there,smoke some tires,have a beer with a good friend,do what you have always wanted to do.I am pretty sure no one will ever say on their deathbed "gee I'm glad my life was calm and boring"

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471954 07/22/13 04:15 PM 07/22/13 04:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma V Von master
Von master V Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,698 NE Oklahoma	Chuck it in a crank polisher and lightly polish the offending journal. Quick and easy. 72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Von] #1471955 07/22/13 05:14 PM 07/22/13 05:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	Might take it to the lathe in town if need be. Von, I have same car as you in a Satellite clone, any good pics or video of your runs?Or just the car? Bear

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471956 07/22/13 05:15 PM 07/22/13 05:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands BigBlockMopar master
BigBlockMopar master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands	Most cams are tight in new bearings. Like Cab mentioned, rotate the cam a few times in the bearings with a wrench. Take it out, look at the bearings which have shiney areas on them. Polish those areas. BigBlockMopar.com

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1471957 07/22/13 06:04 PM 07/22/13 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California L Lefty master
Lefty master L Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 6,516 Santa Cruz, California	Quote: BB Mopar are famous for having the cam tunnel not machined to the proper size from the factory I now install one bearing at a time and test fit the cam, if it is good I install the next one and so on unless I find a tight one, if and when( 3 out of 10 blocks will have a tight one ) I find a tight one I use a bearing knife to scrape the high spots off, they will shine at you until the cam spins freely by hand like your trying to do I don't like using any abrassive stones or papers that may leave some abrrassive material in the soft cam bearings One of the machine shops I use to use in Orange County, CA would use a brake or small cylinder hone on the bad cam tunnel holes to bring them up to the proper sizes and I.D. He would then installed the new cam bearings, I never had a problem with them done that way Slick tricks I'm keeping this post for future reference. Thanks Cab.

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Lefty] #1471958 07/22/13 07:00 PM 07/22/13 07:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands BigBlockMopar master
BigBlockMopar master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,575 The Netherlands	For a quick & dirty 'scrape' of the bearings, I've modified an old cam by cutting slanted grooves in all the bearingjournals. The grooves acts as a scraper when rotated in the bores. BigBlockMopar.com

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471959 07/22/13 07:24 PM 07/22/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Got a machinist coming if I wait that long...I might LIGHTLY and Carefully polish the #1 cam journal itself (right terminology?cam itself not the bearing...)and see if she frees up.Machinist says it is probably OK as -is (without seeing it personally yet), but I could try a light polish,as above, he does not think it will help or hurt,but OK to try. Polishing the journal or turning down the journal isn't the right way to do it . You think it's the front journal but it may not be take the cam and put it in backwards and see how it fits into the #1 journal ? Can you do the same with #5 ? The way cab describes above, do one at a time, is the way to do it that way you find out which is the offending bearing. How did you install the #1 bearing , from the front or from the rear ?

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471960 07/22/13 07:48 PM 07/22/13 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,852 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,852 Rio Linda, CA	Run it as is, don't mess with it. I'd be tickled to death to get one to turn with 35-40 inch pounds. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: JohnRR] #1471961 07/22/13 11:02 PM 07/22/13 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	Polishing the journal or turning down the journal isn't the right way to do it . You think it's the front journal but it may not be take the cam and put it in backwards and see how it fits into the #1 journal ? Can you do the same with #5 ? The way cab describes above, do one at a time, is the way to do it that way you find out which is the offending bearing. How did you install the #1 bearing , from the front or from the rear ? Installed from the front with a custom mandrel, as the rest looked OK, the #1 was showing copper. No room to put the cam in backwards, as the darned hood latch support is right there in the way.I can squeak it in at a slight angle to install normally. Regards, Bear

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1471962 07/22/13 11:08 PM 07/22/13 11:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	Quote: Run it as is, don't mess with it. I'd be tickled to death to get one to turn with 35-40 inch pounds. JohnK,really?So that isn't an issue? I was thinking myself (dangerous, that...)that this IS after all the grooved one, and as such will have 360' oil all the time, will probably clearance itself pretty quick?I like the idea of as much bearing material as possible ie not changing the fit if I don't have to...

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471963 07/22/13 11:22 PM 07/22/13 11:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio ProSport I Live Here
ProSport I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,918 Akron, Ohio	I just ran my whole short block back to the shop last week due to the same problem. I wanted them to do it so it was done right, especially if they have to take it apart. My cam wouldn't even go in. 1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: ProSport] #1471964 07/23/13 12:49 PM 07/23/13 12:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	We found the middle cam bearing to have horizontally opposed 'pinch points' showing up as shiny spots.Appear to have been there a long time. Must be either an out of round cam bearing saddle, (core shift) or a non concentric cam bearing,either way its gotta stay in there.As the pan is being changed,considering stuffing a rag under the tunnel,using a ho made dowel or PVC with 400 grit secured to it to attempt to polish the high spots,then flush well with penetrant; or leave it alone and run as-is. Thinking.

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: Sixgun] #1471965 07/23/13 01:27 PM 07/23/13 01:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: How did you install the #1 bearing , from the front or from the rear ? Installed from the front with a custom mandrel, as the rest looked OK, the #1 was showing copper. No room to put the cam in backwards, as the darned hood latch support is right there in the way.I can squeak it in at a slight angle to install normally. Regards, Bear Putting in that bearing from the front is what usually causes the issue you have with it , it got cocked when putting it in more than likely. What are you doing with the old cam? You could cut off the length of it you need to so you can put in the front journal and use it to adjust the bearing size by rotating it in an elliptical pattern. I'll bet those shiney spots are from the old cam FITTING itself to the bearing hole.

Re: New cam a wee bit tight? [Re: JohnRR] #1471966 07/24/13 12:30 AM 07/24/13 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington Sixgun OP top fuel
Sixgun OP top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,607 Western Washington	JohnRR, my old friend, The front bearing tool was a 3 step aluminum plug that was also the removal tool.You can actually see the edge of the bearing is true with the edge of the cast iron bore. The old cam was given away to a fellow that does not mind trying to polish the scorched lobe tips :-) for his tow truck??? Pretty sure this was a pre existing condition, and I feel it in my bones that this will remedy it, at least matching the quality of the fix to the quality of the rest of the "build" I may be wrong, but I'm going to think a little more, then take action.Not arguing with your logic, as I usually agree with it.I'm just the one looking at it here onsite. Thanks! Bear

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