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440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped #1471740
07/21/13 10:16 PM
07/21/13 10:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
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Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
I have a 440 in a e bod,lunati 303 cam,worked 452 heads,391 rear auto.
has 3/8 sender,fuel line,eddy mech. pump,eddy rpm intake,850 holly dbl. pumper msd 6a ign.,headers,2 1/2" exhaust. runs like a champ and falls apart just a tic past 5 grand. I've tried jetting,timing,fuel pumps,no air cleaner,gas cap,2 different dizzy's all with the exact same results.
I would think it should pull past 5 grand but cant figure what's hanging it up. seems to be fuel but plugs are a nice tan color.
Any idea's??? I'm stumped.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471741
07/21/13 10:23 PM
07/21/13 10:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA Offline
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Not knowing whether you've performed the mods to the car, or purchased it that way?....but any chance the MSD may have a 5000 RPM rev chip limiter?

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471742
07/21/13 10:24 PM
07/21/13 10:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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May be running out of fuel. run it up to 4800 let off completely then back to the boards if it then pulls up to say 5500 then you know your fuel is not keeping up!

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: DAYCLONA] #1471743
07/21/13 10:27 PM
07/21/13 10:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Ontario, Canada
Quote:

Not knowing whether you've performed the mods to the car, or purchased it that way?....but any chance the MSD may have a 5000 RPM rev chip limiter?




Oh yea try different chips if it as a limiter.


The other thing that can cause that is too much preload on the lifters and it pumping open. you can try taking a 1/2 turn at a time out of adjusters to see what it does don't be afraid of a little ticking!


Are the heads milled and or block decked much?

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Dodgem] #1471744
07/21/13 10:29 PM
07/21/13 10:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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i've got a stock 440 magnum that drops dead at 4500,... .

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Dodgem] #1471745
07/21/13 10:36 PM
07/21/13 10:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
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Detroit Michigan
heads been cc'd to 85 so a little cut,can see the numbers shaved a little bit. no rev limiter. didn't think of backing out and hitting it again but will try. just running stock rockers for now.
I did not build the engine so not much help there.

maybe a set of rocker shaft shims???

Last edited by stinger; 07/21/13 10:40 PM.
Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471746
07/21/13 11:10 PM
07/21/13 11:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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As you know I'd want to pin it to fuel or ign first. Sounds like you have a killer fuel delivery system but I'd T at the carb inlet & run a neoprene line to a vac gauge with a psi side & tape it to the windshield & need several psi at the offending rpm/load. since you've been dealing with this for awhile I'd go ahead & go to the trouble of subbing in a regular electronic ign & see what happens. Is rotor phasing close enough? NAPA has an Echlin rotor with a .060" longer blade that doesn't fix phasing but helps it as it reduces the distance the spark has to jump. MO-3000 for $8 dollars & change out the door. As said check preload. I'm gonna WAG that it is the Might Sputter & Die system. Holler how it goes.


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Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471747
07/21/13 11:28 PM
07/21/13 11:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 441
Uranus
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strokerchall Offline
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Uranus
do you have a carb spacer?
maybe the fuel is boiling?

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: strokerchall] #1471748
07/21/13 11:58 PM
07/21/13 11:58 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 461
Detroit Michigan
stinger Offline OP
mopar
stinger  Offline OP
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Quote:

do you have a carb spacer?
maybe the fuel is boiling?




no and doudt it.
don't think its pre load or pump up.engine runs great until the 5 grand mark and after it falls flat.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Dodgem] #1471749
07/22/13 12:21 AM
07/22/13 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,399
Posting from 1893 in NW FL
TheBlueBeast Offline
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Quote:

May be running out of fuel. run it up to 4800 let off completely then back to the boards if it then pulls up to say 5500 then you know your fuel is not keeping up!




I had a 383 that did this. the pump push rod was worn and when i replaced it the problem vanished.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: TheBlueBeast] #1471750
07/22/13 12:30 AM
07/22/13 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,923
Grand Prairie,Texas
stumpy Offline
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Grand Prairie,Texas
I have had a bad coil cause this kind of trouble.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stumpy] #1471751
07/22/13 02:11 AM
07/22/13 02:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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Fresno, CA
Cam timing? My son had a 2.2/TII that was a tooth off on the cam sprocket. Engine ran GREAT except above 5,000 or so.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471752
07/22/13 03:22 AM
07/22/13 03:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Obviously you have hydraulic lifters..
If original Mopar OE stockers 5K or a little over is all you will get...

Just my $0.02...

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Sinitro] #1471753
07/22/13 07:06 AM
07/22/13 07:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Don't overlook valve springs.

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: stinger] #1471754
07/22/13 07:12 AM
07/22/13 07:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Shims may help try the fuel test first.

That was the first RPM limiter I ran into back in the day next was valve springs.


Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: gdonovan] #1471755
07/22/13 08:52 AM
07/22/13 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:

Don't overlook valve springs.




that was my initial thought, as he didn't list what springs....for that fast rate cam, you want a spring probably with at least 120# of seat pressure and a 350lb/in rate


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Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: patrick] #1471756
07/22/13 09:16 AM
07/22/13 09:16 AM
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Posts: 4,220
West Plains, MO
DrCharles Offline
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What happens when you rev it with no load (park/neutral)? If it still won't go past 5k then it's almost certainly not fuel supply

Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: patrick] #1471757
07/22/13 09:17 AM
07/22/13 09:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet

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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
I'll go with valve springs, if you are running stock rockers and springs it's a wonder it runs at all. Next would be coil although those tend to work until they get hot then they don't work at all. Alsomake sure you are not sucking the choke horn shut.


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Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1471758
07/22/13 09:34 AM
07/22/13 09:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
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eightlitermopar Offline
top fuel
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Posts: 1,630
North Central Florida
We had a 383 falling flat like that. It was the fuel pump pushrod. I second or third this opinion. Just looking at the rod you can't tell much of a difference.

I'd change that and see what happens.....


Mopar or no car
Re: 440 falls off at 5 grand...Stumped [Re: eightlitermopar] #1471759
07/22/13 10:23 AM
07/22/13 10:23 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,847
Oakdale CT
gdonovan Offline
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Quote:

We had a 383 falling flat like that. It was the fuel pump pushrod. I second or third this opinion. Just looking at the rod you can't tell much of a difference.

I'd change that and see what happens.....


p

Hook up a gauge and road test, does not sound like fuel to me though. Light throttle in to 5000 and then roll into it. Should have enough fuel in the bowls for a second or two.

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