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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: patrick]
#14551
06/11/05 12:32 AM
06/11/05 12:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Quote:
so in the end clair, what you're saying, is just start out with a complete magnum motor? 
That would be the LAZY way to do it...  But yeah, you could do it that way. At least it would be a good source for the hard parts. I'm still waiting on that Magnum 340...
Clair
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14554
06/17/05 12:21 AM
06/17/05 12:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Another thing that sunk in today is that the slight clocking change that the Magnum pump has versus the earlier pumps IS a big deal. What it does is change the location of the pivot point on my new bracket, a detail that makes my neat new bracket useless. Puts the pivot bolt right through the outer edge of the pump reservoir, which ain't so good. You can see the clocking difference here:  Magnum on the left, LA pumps in the middle and on the right. This also means that the LA pump I'm using now HAS to have the reservoir swapped to the grungy one in the middle to get the return line in close to the right place, AND, I have to ditch my on-pump cooler and go with the B-van grille-mounted cooler. Not as tidy a solution, by a long shot. Crap. And on those high notes, I called it an evening. Besides, it was dead still 90* air in the garage, lots of mosquitos out, and I kept spilling PS fluid every time I turned around. I swear those pumps MAKE fluid... Hopefully better news to follow soon. Clair
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 06/17/05 12:22 AM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14555
07/03/05 12:33 AM
07/03/05 12:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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A couple of weeks later, another update. Got all the PS issues sorted out today. I ended up using the modified bracket I hacked up previously, a couple spacers on the front of the pump to move the pump back slightly, and did the fine tuning on the belt alignment with a pulley puller to move it outward about 1/10". Shouldn't affect the way it runs at all. On the back side of the pump, I used the stock rear bracket, and a short (~1/2" or so) spacer on the engine end. Nut on the back side of the bracket to hold it in place, since the primary mounting bolt threads in to the timing chain cover and doesn't normally need a nut. I also fabbed up the lower bracket I needed. This is a T-shaped piece that mounts to the two studs on the lower part of the timing chain cover. On a typical LA, these are plain bolts, but the Magnum uses stud/bolt things so that the ATF cooler lines can be attached to a bracket at that point. It's pretty dang convenient to have those studs there, and it meant a nice simple bracket would do what I wanted it to do. Pic 1 of 2... 
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/03/05 12:34 AM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14556
07/03/05 12:36 AM
07/03/05 12:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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...pic 2 of 2...  It's about the simplest bracket in the world, and I welded the snot out of it. Gotta play with the welder more often so I don't have to play with the grinder so much...
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/03/05 12:37 AM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14557
07/03/05 12:40 AM
07/03/05 12:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Finally, since things went OK to day, I put the other accessories on and see how it all looked. Here's the latest mock-up:  Unfortunately, there's no way at present to mount the tensioner, which is kind of important.  I think a pretty simple plate will do the trick, but it's going to take a bit of fabricating. Again. I hope I'm back on the road this year... Clair
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/03/05 12:41 AM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14558
07/17/05 05:24 PM
07/17/05 05:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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A couple of weeks later, another update. It's almost like I'm on some sort of schedule... This time, it's the belt tensioner. Got that one figured out now, too. Since the LA blocks lack the block bolt holes required to mount the OE Magnum tensioner, I had to fabricate something again. This time it was a bracket to allow a salvaged piece of the original LA PS pump bracket to act as the tensioner pulley swing arm. The bracket I needed to make attaches to the main accessory bracket, and happens to have the same bolt pattern as the mate to the offset bend bracket on the LA PS pump bracket (the one that mounts on the lower two timing cover bolt holes). That worked out well for making a pattern, but I still had to modify it quite a bit to achieve the range of motion I needed. Also, since the two holes I needed to use in the main accessory bracket were AGAIN not in the same plane, I needed to make a spacer to keep it all square. Easy enough with three washers. 
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/17/05 05:28 PM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14559
07/17/05 05:26 PM
07/17/05 05:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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p2 Here it is in place with the washers: 
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/17/05 05:30 PM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14561
07/17/05 05:34 PM
07/17/05 05:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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A bunch of holes and a few drill bits later, I had the arc I needed, and the basic shape of the bracket sketched on to a piece of 3/16" steel plate. Broke out the Skill saw with the metal cutting blade, whittled down the parts that didn't look like the bracket, and smoothed it off on the grinder. Here's the assembly:  I just need to weld a nut on to the tensioner bracket to make it easier to tighten, re-tack the weld nut on the back of the pivot bracket (just for good BS), fabricate a strut to stabilize the brcket assembly, and it should all be good to go. Now to see if I can bolt this mess up to the M1 EFI intake and have it clear the t-stat housing that's in the LA position... Clair
Last edited by Clair_Davis; 07/17/05 05:36 PM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14562
01/23/06 12:01 AM
01/23/06 12:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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6 MONTHS LATER... an update.  It's all installed now, just need to sort out final wiring, fix the hose situation, and test run. The run part can't happen until I get the EFI tied down, but I'm at 95% now. Whew... On to the pics... Here's half of what I was hoping to obtain, more space in front of the engine (the other half was the tiny Mag Van A/C compressor). The Mag serp system is easily an inch shorter than the old LA system. Here's all the new space in front of the water pump. My old LA pump pulley bolts were a fat 1/8" from this same electric fan motor:  Of course having all that space means a bigger fan/radiator combo can fit, and the new Volvo fan is a tad thicker than the old Daytona fan, sooooo... I'm back at about 1/2" clear now. Oh, well... it's all an upgrade, right?  Hose routing is kind of a mess, though. I've got an EFI intake that has the t-stat location the same as the old LA engines, but all my accessories are in the Magnum location. This means the left rear bolt on the A/C compressor is where the t-stat housing wants to be, and you have to do surgery on the accessory bracket AND the A/C compressor to make it fit as-is. I'm going to see how that all works out, and maybe keep my eyes out for another EFI manifold with a relocated t-stat. What a PITA. This MAY not be a problem on late LA manifolds, and is almost definitely not a problem on the Mag manifolds. This is what I get for jacking around with wierd stuff... ANYWAY, the upper hose is a composite of TWO LA/A-body upper hoses, and it's sort of tidy. Just needs a splice in the middle. I'm going to se what a Phord Exploder upper hose looks like, since they're kind of funky.  The lower hose is a stock LA/A-body lower, with a splice to make up some length. Part of this is because I went to a wider radiator. If you get a new lower from the parts store, it probably has enough material prior to trimming to work OK.  So, that's where I'm at now. All in all, I'd say it's a giant PITA to adapt the Mag serpentine system to an LA engine, but it CAN be done. So far, the hardest part has been finding a 7-rib belt that was the right length to work with what I came up with. Next time, I'll start with a belt and work backwards. If you can tolerate a 6-rib belt and an open groove on your accessories, there are LOTS of those out there. Clair
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14564
02/05/07 10:38 PM
02/05/07 10:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
Clair_Davis
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,204
Fort Worth, TX
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Can't edit my post to fix the photo links, so a quote will have to do... Thanks for nothing, EV1. It's up and running, so far so good. Hope to get a little road time on it soon. Clair Quote:
6 MONTHS LATER... an update.
It's all installed now, just need to sort out final wiring, fix the hose situation, and test run. The run part can't happen until I get the EFI tied down, but I'm at 95% now. Whew... On to the pics...
Here's half of what I was hoping to obtain, more space in front of the engine (the other half was the tiny Mag Van A/C compressor). The Mag serp system is easily an inch shorter than the old LA system. Here's all the new space in front of the water pump. My old LA pump pulley bolts were a fat 1/8" from this same electric fan motor:
Of course having all that space means a bigger fan/radiator combo can fit, and the new Volvo fan is a tad thicker than the old Daytona fan, sooooo... I'm back at about 1/2" clear now. Oh, well... it's all an upgrade, right?
Hose routing is kind of a mess, though. I've got an EFI intake that has the t-stat location the same as the old LA engines, but all my accessories are in the Magnum location. This means the left rear bolt on the A/C compressor is where the t-stat housing wants to be, and you have to do surgery on the accessory bracket AND the A/C compressor to make it fit as-is. I'm going to see how that all works out, and maybe keep my eyes out for another EFI manifold with a relocated t-stat. What a PITA. This MAY not be a problem on late LA manifolds, and is almost definitely not a problem on the Mag manifolds. This is what I get for jacking around with wierd stuff... ANYWAY, the upper hose is a composite of TWO LA/A-body upper hoses, and it's sort of tidy. Just needs a splice in the middle. I'm going to se what a Phord Exploder upper hose looks like, since they're kind of funky.
The lower hose is a stock LA/A-body lower, with a splice to make up some length. Part of this is because I went to a wider radiator. If you get a new lower from the parts store, it probably has enough material prior to trimming to work OK.
So, that's where I'm at now. All in all, I'd say it's a giant PITA to adapt the Mag serpentine system to an LA engine, but it CAN be done. So far, the hardest part has been finding a 7-rib belt that was the right length to work with what I came up with. Next time, I'll start with a belt and work backwards. If you can tolerate a 6-rib belt and an open groove on your accessories, there are LOTS of those out there.
Clair
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14565
05/09/11 11:16 PM
05/09/11 11:16 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
Georgia
matthewf229
member
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member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
Georgia
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You guys went about this all the wrong way. The LA motors already have a serpentine belt setup. 1991-early 1992 Dakotas are throttle body LAs, with a serpentine belt setup. I am in the process of converting my Satellite. The timing cover has a boss made onto the side of it to mount the p/s pump, nice and close to the block. The only hang-ups so far have been the cam bolt and the tensioner. The alternator, compressor, water pump, crank pulley, and p/s pump bolt right up and line up perfectly, with no clearance issues at all, even with headers. Another bonus is that the Dakota compressor sits at a slight angle, so the compressor outlet ports are almost perfectly in line with the existing a/c hoses. The dipstick has plenty of clearance, too. I had to relocate one heater hose, but the radiator hose won't have to change much. The head of the cam bolt is too tall, so I ordered one for a Dakota from Mopar, but I still had to grind it down. It fits fine now. I also had to take up the extra space on the cam snout so that the sprocket wouldn't walk. A couple of hardware store 1" washers took care of that. I still have to have custom p/s lines and a/c hoses made...no big deal. And on to the tensioner... the Dakota's tensioner is mounted on the air pump bracket. It is big, ugly, and hits the fenderwell anyway. And the tensioner is sprung the wrong way. So what I am in the process of doing is using a Magnum-style tensioner with a six groove pulley (the Dakota stuff is all six groove, instead of seven), which is sprung the opposite way, and a custom made bracket. I am not done, but I will post pictures and part numbers when I'm done. This setup is almost a simple bolt-on, with plenty of clearance, even with my tall valve covers and Hooker super-comp headers... 
Last edited by matthewf229; 05/09/11 11:37 PM.
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Re: Another Magnum question - serpentine belt swap?
[Re: Clair_Davis]
#14566
12/04/12 05:41 PM
12/04/12 05:41 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
Georgia
matthewf229
member
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member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2
Georgia
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A very late update on my belt swap: I ended up using the original tensioner bracket, but I ended up cutting off the air pump mounts. It bolted on with no issues. The tensioner ended up being sprung the correct way, just clocked wrong. I rotated it about 180 degrees and swapped the original smooth pulley for a grooved one. The belt had to be a custom length, if memory serves me correctly it was around 101". The thermostat location was a bit of a challenge, but the original location will work, I ended up using an upper hose for a mid-90's Tahoe (I think, I just looked around at the parts store until I found what I wanted). The original dipstick tube and stick both worked, I just tweaked them a little to clear the alternator, and bolted it down with a universal bracket I had lying around. The alternator was overcharging the battery initially, but I got that problem worked out with help from the local starter/alternator shop. I swapped the mechanical fan for a dual electric fan & shroud assembly out of a 2002 Chevy Camaro SS. The size and shape of this fan assembly fits the radiator almost perfectly. I haven't had the A/C lines made yet (no money, a seemingly re-occuring issue with me), but I had a local hydraulic shop make the power steering pressure hose, and the P/S system works fine with the original steering gear. I haven't driven this car much the past year, life got in the way, but the belt swap has worked perfectly, the belt tracks straight, and no noise.
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