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318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand #1447658
06/04/13 08:27 PM
06/04/13 08:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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I am resealing my old leaky chrysler 318 (1975). it was running in my charger 2 months ago when I parked it and put it up on jack stands to install the felpro gasket set. I did the valve covers, then took the front of the engine apart and took off the oil pan. I installed a new rear main seal, then new oil pump and reused the pickup tube. I positioned the oil pickup in the same position it was in before. Then I put a new pan gasket on the oil pan and put it back on the bottom of the engine. Then I replaced the timing chain and sprockets with a comp cams magnum double roller chain and sprocket set. I put a new front main seal in the timing cover and a new cover gasket, then put it back on the engine. I Installed the mechanical fuel pump back into the side of the timing cover. Then the water pump. I put the damper back on with an installer tool, then bolted the crank pulley onto the damper. Finally, I put the harmonic damper bolt back on and torqued to 135 ft/lbs. As I did this the the crank rotated but then stopped and wouldnt budge. I torqued it down then tried to turn the crank with a normal ratchet.. wouldnt budge. So, I tried turning it the other way (counter clockwise) and it turned just fine until I turned it a full 360 degrees and it stopped again, in the same place it hit before. I've now turned the crank back and forth 360 degrees each time and the crank just keeps jamming up in the same spot.

I dont know whats happening. My best guess is that I may have positioned the oil pickup tube just a little wonky and one of the crank counterweights is hitting it, so I can turn the crank just until it hits then reverse and the same thing happens. Or maybe my fuel pump arm was installed wrong? The damper doesnt look like its binding up on the timing cover, and I didnt remove the camshaft retainer plate when I had the timing chain off, so I dont know what the problem is. I hope its not the oil pickup tube... I spent a lot of time cleaning and prepping the pan and block surface for the new gaskets and rtv sealent and I dont want to have to take the pan off and mess up my work.

Any suggestions
?

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: Adam71Charger] #1447659
06/04/13 08:34 PM
06/04/13 08:34 PM
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Fox River Grove, IL
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HotRodRailroader Offline
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This is how we lean from our mistakes. I think the best way is pull the pan and have someone rotate the crank and see what you are hitting.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: HotRodRailroader] #1447660
06/04/13 08:54 PM
06/04/13 08:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
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I am truckless..
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: 340SHORTY] #1447661
06/04/13 09:30 PM
06/04/13 09:30 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Crank counterweight hitting the oil pump. If so just grind a little off of the pump case so it'll clear


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: Adam71Charger] #1447662
06/04/13 09:38 PM
06/04/13 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Covington Georgia
RV2 Offline
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Covington Georgia
Did you reuse the same crank pulley to balancer bolts?
I had a friend install longer than stock bolts on the lower crank pulley and they went through the balancer and hit the timing cover.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RV2] #1447663
06/04/13 11:07 PM
06/04/13 11:07 PM
Joined: May 2003
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Florida
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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Quote:

Did you reuse the same crank pulley to balancer bolts?
I had a friend install longer than stock bolts on the lower crank pulley and they went through the balancer and hit the timing cover.




x2 on this

to remove doubt, remove fuel pump and try to spin crank again.

x2 on the oil pump hitting the crank.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RapidRobert] #1447664
06/05/13 01:50 AM
06/05/13 01:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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Quote:

Crank counterweight hitting the oil pump. If so just grind a little off of the pump case so it'll clear




Yes! The was no obstruction with the pulleys or damper (stock replacement damper). Took out the fuel pump... crank still binding. Took off oil pan, turned the crank. It was hitting the oil pump. First thought was the pump was the wrong type. Grabbed my old pump, and noticed that the pump had been ground down in the same area to clear the crank counterweight. So I took some casting numbers off the crank 3751841. Turns out its a 340 crank and the oil pump had been ground down for clearance. Guess my 318 is actually a stroker, but what CID does this combo make? The rods look factory, but what rods are they, what did they come out of, and whats their length compared to 318 rods?

new pump


old pump


crank #'s




Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: Adam71Charger] #1447665
06/05/13 09:02 AM
06/05/13 09:02 AM
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chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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It's still a 318 as the 340 has same stroke as 318. Good you found problem though.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: buildanother] #1447666
06/05/13 10:59 AM
06/05/13 10:59 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Same stroke/rod length between the two. iirc 340 cranks are forged so either someone wanted a forged crank instead of a cast one in that bad boy or that was what they happened to have on hand when they put her together. I'm assuming that black spot where you've ground away clearance is a hot spot from grinding & not a hole going all the way thru


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RapidRobert] #1447667
06/05/13 11:16 AM
06/05/13 11:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
Quote:

Same stroke/rod length between the two. iirc 340 cranks are forged so either someone wanted a forged crank instead of a cast one in that bad boy or that was what they happened to have on hand when they put her together. I'm assuming that black spot where you've ground away clearance is a hot spot from grinding & not a hole going all the way thru




I don't see the clearancing work he did on the new pump, that's a picture of the old pump, and yes, it looks like a hole in the casting!! what was the oil pressure like when it was running before?!

be sure to not go through the pump casting when clearancing!!!


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RapidRobert] #1447668
06/05/13 11:19 AM
06/05/13 11:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,089
A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR Offline
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Sometime in 72 340's got cast cranks, 73 340's were cast crank, so it could be a cast crank .

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: JohnRR] #1447669
06/05/13 01:45 PM
06/05/13 01:45 PM
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dogdays Offline
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First of all, you can tell it's a casting because you can see the screw heads where they screwed the casting number onto the mold. It isn't necessarily a 340 crank, I'd say the odds are at least 90:1 against it. If it was a 340 crank, the #1 and #4 rod throws would have lightening holes drilled in their ends.

Do a better casting number search and you'll find that 3751841 is a casting from which either 340 cast cranks or 318 cranks were machined from probably late 72 all the way through the 2000s.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/U508-CRANKSHAFT-3751841-2000-DODGE-RAM-2500-OHV-/151034540158
BTW, absolutely nothing wrong with a 318 cast crank. They're good for 500+ horsepower IMHO.

R

Last edited by dogdays; 06/05/13 01:50 PM.
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: dogdays] #1447670
06/06/13 01:28 AM
06/06/13 01:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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I bought a melling m72 oil pump, that's what all the stores said was the stock replacement pump. So, since it doesn't fit right, what oil pump/part number do I need for a standard 1974 318?

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: Adam71Charger] #1447671
06/06/13 02:00 AM
06/06/13 02:00 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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You actually have the right pump & a stackup of tolerances just happened to happen in this case. do some light/shallow grinding there on the case where the witness mark is where it's hitting. grind judiciously then trial fit then grind again till it just clears. .035" (spark plug gap) or a slight bit more should be plenty. PATIENCE (grind lightly/fit/grind lightly/fit)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RapidRobert] #1447672
06/06/13 03:12 AM
06/06/13 03:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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Ok, thats no problem. I've read a lot of bad things about melling pumps and the relief valve sticking. How do I check that? I dont know if the reports were from mopar specific applications though.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: RapidRobert] #1447673
06/06/13 08:55 AM
06/06/13 08:55 AM
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Posts: 507
Northern Indiana
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capac Offline
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Northern Indiana
Quote:

You actually have the right pump & a stackup of tolerances just happened to happen in this case. do some light/shallow grinding there on the case where the witness mark is where it's hitting. grind judiciously then trial fit then grind again till it just clears. .035" (spark plug gap) or a slight bit more should be plenty. PATIENCE (grind lightly/fit/grind lightly/fit)




Make sure you torque the mains to spec before checking clearances. I was amazed at the difference it made when I installed my main girdle. The not so amazing part was taking everything back apart so that I could re-clearance it.


'64 390 Valiant Signet Convertable (WIP...)
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: capac] #1447674
06/06/13 01:41 PM
06/06/13 01:41 PM
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dogdays Offline
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"I've read a lot of bad things about melling pumps"

Welcome to the Internet age. You can read a lot of bad things about anything. The problem is, if you buy an oil pump, there's a 98% chance it is Melling. Does anyone else even make oil pumps anymore?

R.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: dogdays] #1447675
06/06/13 01:53 PM
06/06/13 01:53 PM
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S.E.Mich
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drew72 Offline
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Quote:

"I've read a lot of bad things about melling pumps"

Welcome to the Internet age. You can read a lot of bad things about anything. The problem is, if you buy an oil pump, there's a 98% chance it is Melling. Does anyone else even make oil pumps anymore?

R.




Over 30 years of engine building and have NEVER had a problem with a Melling oil pump.

Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: drew72] #1447676
06/06/13 02:21 PM
06/06/13 02:21 PM
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Posts: 685
pennsylvania
poboyengineering Offline
mopar
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pennsylvania
I cant believe you didn't burn the bearings out of this motor with that hole in the pump! everything I know about a car I learned by screwing it up at least once, and even ive never done that!


It may be ugly, but it sure is slow.

Girls comb their hair in rear view mirrors and the boys try to look so hard....
Re: 318 crank is hitting something while turning by hand [Re: poboyengineering] #1447677
06/10/13 04:43 PM
06/10/13 04:43 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,521
Tacoma, Washington USA
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Adam71Charger Offline OP
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Quote:

I cant believe you didn't burn the bearings out of this motor with that hole in the pump! everything I know about a car I learned by screwing it up at least once, and even ive never done that!




I actually didnt do that to the oil pump, the PO did. I've had the car 3 months, and the front end has been apart the whole time for the suspension rebuild and general clean up. The underside was absolutely caked in dirt, grease, oil and god knows what else. I think I've scraped at least 2lbs of greasy dirt off the Kframe.

I started it up once when i got it, ran like [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean]. but no knocking. I've replaced the oil pump, gasket, replaced rear main seal, cleaned out the pan and replaced pan gasket, cleaned out timing cover and replaced seal, new comp cams double roller timing chain and sprockets, new stock replacement damper, new fuel pump gasket, new water pump and gasket, new valve cover gaskets, and Steer and Gear rebuilt my ps box and ps pump. Champion spark plugs, MSD 8mm wires, dist cap w/brass contacts, good rotor. Hopefully it will be a great little runner until my 440/bb 727 is ready







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