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chassis gurus!!! #1425283
04/25/13 11:48 AM
04/25/13 11:48 AM
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organ
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maximum entropy Offline OP
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organ
my buddy got a nice chassis car, and he's gonna run it for the first time on saturday. he scaled it, and it was heavy on the left rear corner. shouldn't it be the right rear? it's a four link car. idk if he has a roll bar- i assume he does.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425284
04/25/13 11:53 AM
04/25/13 11:53 AM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Right rear should be the lightest


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: rickseeman] #1425285
04/25/13 11:55 AM
04/25/13 11:55 AM
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organ
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organ
interesting. i thought the left rear gets planted. is that in a leaf spring car only?


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425286
04/25/13 11:58 AM
04/25/13 11:58 AM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Well, a chassis car is normally coilovers. The driver sits on the left. The engine is in the front. So the right rear has the least weight on it.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425287
04/25/13 12:05 PM
04/25/13 12:05 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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I disagree.. but you have to base the weights on how
much torque the car has.. any chassis car I have seen
wanted the RR a bit heavier as in 10 to 30 lbs... but
I would start out at zero and if it goes to the right
on the launch I would add weight to the RR by shortening
the upper right bar a 1/4 turn at a time

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: rickseeman] #1425288
04/25/13 12:06 PM
04/25/13 12:06 PM
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Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric Offline
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Generally the right would get the preload making the right side have more weight...BUT...some cars like to be set up neutral and some..like mine.. like negative preload. I set the anti-roll up neutral and make the adjustments with the 4-link. Some people use the anti-roll for preload also.


5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Eric] #1425289
04/25/13 12:09 PM
04/25/13 12:09 PM
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Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric Offline
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Here is a recent pass...made a slight move to the left so I lengthed the bar a hair...straight as an Arrow now..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5ocT5f7iss


5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Eric] #1425290
04/25/13 12:10 PM
04/25/13 12:10 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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I am talking about static weight. No preload.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Eric] #1425291
04/25/13 12:10 PM
04/25/13 12:10 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

Generally the right would get the preload making the right side have more weight...BUT...some cars like to be set up neutral and some..like mine.. like negative preload. I set the anti-roll up neutral and make the adjustments with the 4-link. Some people use the anti-roll for preload also.




I keep the anti roll at neutral all the time.. I load
it with the upper right bar(or negative if needed)

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1425292
04/25/13 12:27 PM
04/25/13 12:27 PM
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organ
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organ
sounds like there is no set rule- start neutral, and adjust as necessary? neutral with the driver in the car? or without? please pardon my ignorance, but i've raced nothing but leaf spring cars.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425293
04/25/13 12:59 PM
04/25/13 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,652
Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Start with neutral with the driver in the car. Fuel. Race air pressure in tires. -2 degrees pinion angle. Ready to make a pass. No preload. Horsepower will dictate if you need preload. Buy Jerry Bickel's book and Rick Jones book. Best money you can spend if you want to learn about chassis cars.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425294
04/25/13 01:03 PM
04/25/13 01:03 PM
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St. Charles, MO.
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Slingshot383 Offline
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Car needs to be on the scales just like it would be on the starting line, fuel, water, oil, driver (fully suited up), air pressure in the tires set. Set everything neutral and square (distances, front to back, and left. front to .r rear, and r. front to left rear) for the start, and adjust from there.


1994 Undercover Chassis 125" altered stack injected big block, soon blown and injected Member of The Torque and Recoil Club
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: maximum entropy] #1425295
04/25/13 02:46 PM
04/25/13 02:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

sounds like there is no set rule- start neutral, and adjust as necessary? neutral with the driver in the car? or without? please pardon my ignorance, but i've raced nothing but leaf spring cars.




No there is no set rule as to pre load... that is
determined on which way the car goes on launch...
and that means at the line to maybe 50-60 ft out...
really anything beyond that can be alignment or brakes
or other factors.. like Erics car likes a touch of
negative pre load, my car likes about 10# of +pre load..
so you get the idea.. and once you take the play
out of the bar (upper right) it doesnt usually take
much unless something is wrong... all this is based
on the zero of the car at race weight...
Note... if you go to square up the car like slingshot
said make sure what the front end is.. my car has
3/4" of stagger built into the front end(right tire
is set back 3/4" to give me a longer roll out) and
a lot of chassis shops do the same thing

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Slingshot383] #1425296
04/25/13 03:03 PM
04/25/13 03:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Hopefully the car will go straight the way it is already set up. My car is 150 lbs heavier on the left front than the right rear. Do I care? No. All I care about is if it goes straight when I let go of the button. And it does. I have some buddies that think you are supposed to put it on scales and crank the preload into it until it has the same weight on the rear wheels. I don't know why. There are experts somewhere who could take your wheel weights and horsepower and set the car preload before you go to the track but they don't live next door to you, so you have to learn this yourself. Set your 4-link heim joints up where the left hand thread joints are in the front. You didn't say how much horsepower you have, lets say you have 800. If you set it up with no preload it will probably drift to the right after the launch. Put a half a flat of preload in it and make another hit. Keep working it until it goes straight, then life will be good.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: rickseeman] #1425297
04/25/13 05:03 PM
04/25/13 05:03 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Remember the engine rotates chassis clockwise and rearend c-clockwise. I put 30 pounds more on left front and rest equal then take slack out of top right bar. Went straight and no burnout just clean tires and go. Every car is different just how flexible it is.

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: rickseeman] #1425298
04/25/13 06:58 PM
04/25/13 06:58 PM
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BX, CT, FL.
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Quote:

Hopefully the car will go straight the way it is already set up. My car is 150 lbs heavier on the left front than the right rear. Do I care? No. All I care about is if it goes straight when I let go of the button. And it does. I have some buddies that think you are supposed to put it on scales and crank the preload into it until it has the same weight on the rear wheels. I don't know why. There are experts somewhere who could take your wheel weights and horsepower and set the car preload before you go to the track but they don't live next door to you, so you have to learn this yourself. Set your 4-link heim joints up where the left hand thread joints are in the front. You didn't say how much horsepower you have, lets say you have 800. If you set it up with no preload it will probably drift to the right after the launch. Put a half a flat of preload in it and make another hit. Keep working it until it goes straight, then life will be good.





That would work for me

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: B1KILLER] #1425299
04/25/13 07:04 PM
04/25/13 07:04 PM
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Quicktree Offline
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I wouldn't touch a thing until i seen what it's going to do

Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Quicktree] #1425300
04/26/13 01:31 AM
04/26/13 01:31 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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I'm in a similar situtaion as Carls freind, new to me, tube chassis car and no good chassis books in my poccession, yet. Not to hijack this tread but when you guys use the word "negative" or "positive" preload would you please explain which bar and which way to adjust it to get that and what to look for on a scale when adjusting it those two ways


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: Cab_Burge] #1425301
04/26/13 01:46 AM
04/26/13 01:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

I'm in a similar situtaion as Carls freind, new to me, tube chassis car and no good chassis books in my poccession, yet. Not to hijack this tread but when you guys use the word "negative" or "positive" preload would you please explain which bar and which way to adjust it to get that and what to look for on a scale when adjusting it those two ways




Pretty simple Cab.. when people talk about changing/adjusting
pre load its the upper right bar on the 4-link system...
when you shorten that bar it pushes the right rear
tire downward.. which adds weight on that scale...
if you lengthen it its lifting that tire.. taking
weight off that scale.... if the car goes to the right
off the line that means the left tire is doing more
work pushing the car to the right... in that case
you ADD pre load(shorten the bar).. if the car is
going to the left.. the right tire is working more
so you take pre load out... (lengthen the bar)
EDIT
when we say positive = ADDING pre load... negative
= going negative from the zero point...everything on
preload is from the upper right bar starting at zero
(zero pre-load) then you add or subtract a FLAT or more
from that point... a flat is the hex flats on the
adjuster bar....I hope I said it simple enough ...
but it is very simple
EDIT 2
Also Cab... each bar has a certain job assigned to
it... the 2 lower bars are for setting the length
of the axle housing AND squaring the housing...
remember that the tire is out past the bars so if
you turn the lower right bar out to lengthen the
axle it will pivot on the left bar so the left tire
just got closer... so you need to use BOTH lower bars
to set the length and square the axle housing...
next is the upper left bar... this bar is to set the
pinion angle... then the upper right is the pre load
bar... if you use each bar in this manner you can
talk to anyone and talk the same language

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 04/26/13 02:28 AM.
Re: chassis gurus!!! [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1425302
04/26/13 07:48 AM
04/26/13 07:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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With any ladder bar or four link chassis,with the car race ready,start at neutral and adjust if necessary for 20 to 30 pounds heavy on the passenger(right) rear wheel.Make any fine adjustments after you test run the car at the track.

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