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Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: rowin4] #1392821 02/26/13 02:19 AM 02/26/13 02:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	I set it at zero at the top. The way it was explained, deflection to to the right of zero was negative and to the left of zero was positive. All of my deflections were to the right. As the tech in the video explained (and assuming he is correct), I would need to move the bellhousing downward to get it within tolerances. I only took readings every 90 degrees not at 45 degrees. Last edited by moparmedic; 02/26/13 02:25 AM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392822 02/26/13 02:25 AM 02/26/13 02:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska astjp2 master
astjp2 master Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska	Quote: I set it at zero at the top. The way it was explained, deflection to to the right of zero was negative and to the left of zero was positive. All of my deflections were to the right. As the tech in the video explained (and assuming he is correct), I would need to move the bellhousing downward to get it within tolerances. Set your dial indicator at 0 on the left or right, the use it to tell you what you are off on top and bottom, the opposite of your 0 should be within .002ish from 0. How is it for parallel? You need it flat first befor you indicate the hole. Tim 1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392823 02/26/13 02:29 AM 02/26/13 02:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	I guess I need to check that after reading all of tonights posts. The service manual shows (chronologically) checking the bore first and then parallel so I didn't give it much thought until tonight. The video did the same. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392824 02/26/13 02:44 AM 02/26/13 02:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska astjp2 master
astjp2 master Joined: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,785 Utah and Alaska	Well mine changed when I shimmed it. I have washers that are precision shims, they are .006 thick. If you need a few PM me and I will try and get them out to you in the mail. tim 1941 Taylorcraft 1968 Charger 1994 Wrangler 1998 Wrangler 2008 Kia Rio 2017 Jetta I didn't do 4 years and 9 months of Graduate School to be called Mister!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: astjp2] #1392825 02/26/13 02:52 AM 02/26/13 02:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Will do, Thanks! 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392826 02/26/13 08:12 AM 02/26/13 08:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,466 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,466 Answering the call of the wild	The bell housing needs to be attached with all of it's fasteners & torqued properly before checking runout and squareness. It makes a BIG difference!!!!! All mating surfaces should be bare metal with no burrs If you ever wonder why some cars are faster than others...it's in the details....

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: ThermoQuad] #1392827 02/26/13 02:28 PM 02/26/13 02:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT M moper I Live Here
moper I Live Here M Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 12,675 Columbia, CT	... and in the brand of beverage container used to shim... Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: ThermoQuad] #1392828 02/26/13 05:17 PM 02/26/13 05:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA 7 70HemiGTX top fuel
70HemiGTX top fuel 7 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,360 PA	Quote: The bell housing needs to be attached with all of it's fasteners & torqued properly before checking runout and squareness. It makes a BIG difference!!!!! All mating surfaces should be bare metal with no burrs If you ever wonder why some cars are faster than others...it's in the details.... I couldn't believe how much paint was on both surfaces when I went to put them together. It all adds up. I scraped them down and just barely dusted the bellhousing and block plate with paint and a little light grease on the block so they wouldn't rust.

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 70HemiGTX] #1392829 02/28/13 01:03 PM 02/28/13 01:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Checked the bellhousing for parallel yesterday. I had a hard time getting consistent readings so I had to change the set up a couple times. Must have checked it at least 6 times when it was all said and done. In the end, the greatest total run out I had was .005. The shop manual says to make corrections if total run out is.006 or greater. Now I am just waiting for my offset dowels which are scheduled to be here tomorrow. Hopefully I can have this wrapped up and in the car this weekend or early next week. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392830 03/01/13 04:30 PM 03/01/13 04:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A.	I was thinking about this while working on a 383 and it's possible that the reason for the unparellel of the bellhousing is because of the block and not the bellhousing so shimming it would be the better way to fix that issue ... as much as I don't like that idea... Of course one should check the bellhouing out on a known flat surface just to be sure .

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392831 03/02/13 03:13 AM 03/02/13 03:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi rowin4 master
rowin4 master Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,257 gulfport, ms, west mi	I have been thinking again on the alignment question also. I don't see that the block surface would be off at all. As for the bell housing, maybe the stock aluminum might be contorted after 40 years and have either block facing or the transmission facing out of whack. I have the tools to check it but ain't gona do it. Indexing the center is good enough. it's ok to butt heads, just don't do it with a butthead

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: rowin4] #1392832 03/02/13 10:26 AM 03/02/13 10:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I have been thinking again on the alignment question also. I don't see that the block surface would be off at all. As for the bell housing, maybe the stock aluminum might be contorted after 40 years and have either block facing or the transmission facing out of whack. I have the tools to check it but ain't gona do it. Indexing the center is good enough. Why wouldn't the block surface be affected after X thousands of heat cycles the same way the cam tunnel , the main line and the head deck surfaces are ?

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: JohnRR] #1392833 03/02/13 08:00 PM 03/02/13 08:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Finally got my offset dowels. I had a hell of a time getting one of the old ones out but finally won that battle. Installed the dowels so that the bell housing moved downward .007 and my runout was no more than .002 top to bottom and within .001 side to side. Thanks for all the help!!! Now I can bolt the tranny up and get the engine in the car....I think... 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392834 03/02/13 08:22 PM 03/02/13 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,704 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,704 North Dakota	Quote: ...Installed the dowels so that the bell housing moved downward .007 and my runout was no more than .002 top to bottom and within .001 side to side... You moved the bellhousing down? From your initial readings I would have thought you would move it up. With a '0' at the top and '-16' at the bottom, to get a reading in the negative direction the bell has to be moving away from the dial. But your final numbers are right on the money. 0.002 top to bottom is 0.001 off center and starting out with 0.008 off center, 0.007 dowels gives you 0.001 off center. Likewise with the side readings, they haven't changed. Congratulations! Next time it'll be easier. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392835 03/02/13 09:45 PM 03/02/13 09:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California mickm master
mickm master Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California	ok, my turn. i set the dial indicator and then turned the crank 90 deg each time. set the indicator at 0 at 6:00, and these were my readings the first time around: 0 .014 .001 -.012 discouraged, i decided to test the squareness, and so tore the indicator down and with it set at 0 at the bottom, had .005 at the top. not bad. i still may have the machine shop square it up. did the setup again for out of round and got: 0 .012 .002 -.013 so, i have some .007 offset dowels. do i wait and get some .014's or do i just go for the .007? that will put me within range. FSM says .008, and the Robmc dowels I have say .010. what would you do?

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: mickm] #1392836 03/03/13 01:46 AM 03/03/13 01:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,704 North Dakota 6PakBee I Live Here
6PakBee I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 10,704 North Dakota	Quote: ok, my turn. i set the dial indicator and then turned the crank 90 deg each time. set the indicator at 0 at 6:00, and these were my readings the first time around: 0 .014 .001 -.012 did the setup again for out of round and got: 0 .012 .002 -.013 so, i have some .007 offset dowels. do i wait and get some .014's or do i just go for the .007? that will put me within range. FSM says .008, and the Robmc dowels I have say .010. what would you do? Okay, if I understand what you did, bottom = 0, left = .012, top= .002, right = -.013. TIR vertically is 0.002, off center is 0.001, no change necessary. TIR horizontally is .025, off center is .0125. The 0.014 dowels would get you within about 0.0015 off center, the 0.010 dowels within about .0025 off center. I'd use the 0.014 choice. But I'm anal. "We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 6PakBee] #1392837 03/03/13 03:49 AM 03/03/13 03:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California mickm master
mickm master Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,179 California	Quote: Okay, if I understand what you did, bottom = 0, left = .012, top= .002, right = -.013. TIR vertically is 0.002, off center is 0.001, no change necessary. TIR horizontally is .025, off center is .0125. The 0.014 dowels would get you within about 0.0015 off center, the 0.010 dowels within about .0025 off center. I'd use the 0.014 choice. But I'm anal. i think anality wins out here. i agree. i may as well go for it and get it as close as possible, and yes, if i also understand things correctly, what you have stated above is correct. well, only one more week while i wait for parts! until the next snafu, that is!

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: 6PakBee] #1392838 03/03/13 12:18 PM 03/03/13 12:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon M moparmedic OP super stock
moparmedic OP super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 755 Oregon	Quote: Quote: ...Installed the dowels so that the bell housing moved downward .007 and my runout was no more than .002 top to bottom and within .001 side to side... You moved the bellhousing down? From your initial readings I would have thought you would move it up. With a '0' at the top and '-16' at the bottom, to get a reading in the negative direction the bell has to be moving away from the dial. But your final numbers are right on the money. 0.002 top to bottom is 0.001 off center and starting out with 0.008 off center, 0.007 dowels gives you 0.001 off center. Likewise with the side readings, they haven't changed. Congratulations! Next time it'll be easier. Yes, I moved it down. The you tube video that was posted earlier in this thread had initial runout very similar to mine. In that case the tech explained that the bellhousing needed to go down. I made that initial change thinking if he was wrong, I can always switch it. He was right which made my life easier. I think my + and - readings helped confuse the issue too. Again, the tech in the video took readings that were to the right of zero on the dial indicator as - and to the left of zero as +. - being further away from zero and + being closer. Therefore, the bellhousing was further away from zero (at the top)so he said the bellhousing had to go down. This was my first time so I just followed his and moparts member's advice. That video was awesome though. Nothing like being able to see it and then do it. In my line of work we say "see one, do one, teach one". Not sure I am at the teach one yet. Last edited by moparmedic; 03/03/13 12:32 PM. 1968 Coronet 1968 Charger 1966 A100 Pickup 1967 Barracuda 1970 Challenger 1972 Challenger 1973 Barracuda 2021 Ram 2500

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: moparmedic] #1392839 03/26/13 08:24 AM 03/26/13 08:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,180 upstate western ny sogtx master
sogtx master Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,180 upstate western ny	All my pains of alignment checking issues have been Simplified ..! 7641250-image.jpg (66 downloads) Last edited by sogtx; 03/26/13 08:24 AM. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2TVoO...0429-MOTION.gif

Re: 4 speed bell housing alignment questions [Re: sogtx] #1392840 03/26/13 10:54 AM 03/26/13 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,976 U.S.S.A.	Quote: All my pains of alignment checking issues have been Simplified ..!

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