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BB Oil Pump Questions #1392192
02/22/13 07:57 PM
02/22/13 07:57 PM
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80fbody Offline OP
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Working on my 440. Shooting for 500hp. Basic 10to1 mill. Nothing exotic. Iron heads, roller rockers & a solid cam in the range of .540-.590. Race only mill with a deep pan.

Question: Can I get some oiling mod advise & at what point should I consider a single/dual line system? They're not cheap. What mods would you do?

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392193
02/22/13 09:34 PM
02/22/13 09:34 PM
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how fast to you plan on turning the engine? imho for something like that i would probably groove the fourth cam journal and install .060" restrictions in the head feeds. enlarging the pickup to 1/2" and a HV pump may also be considerations though there are plenty of engines at that level of performance without these modifications. regardless i would groove the cam, i've seen too many burned up valvetrain parts.

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: jamesc] #1392194
02/22/13 10:11 PM
02/22/13 10:11 PM
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80fbody Offline OP
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Should only be turning it to 6500rpm. Just want a reliable bracket motor. Car is real light.

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392195
02/22/13 10:34 PM
02/22/13 10:34 PM
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Stanton Offline
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The important factor will be the pan and oil volume. At rpm the pump will pump it faster than it flows back to the sump - especially if you do any mods to the passages and install a hv pump.

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392196
02/22/13 11:08 PM
02/22/13 11:08 PM
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Quote:

Working on my 440. Shooting for 500hp. Basic 10to1 mill. Nothing exotic. Iron heads, roller rockers & a solid cam in the range of .540-.590. Race only mill with a deep pan.

Question: Can I get some oiling mod advise & at what point should I consider a single/dual line system? They're not cheap. What mods would you do?




At that level you needn't do anything. 1/2" pickup not necessary. Ive run way hotter stuff with stock hemi pans and 3/8" pickups and never any problems.

Maintain proper clearances. pay attention to lifter bore issues(oversize), clean up(deburr) the block, use a tray..



MB

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: Stanton] #1392197
02/22/13 11:45 PM
02/22/13 11:45 PM
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Quote:

The important factor will be the pan and oil volume. At rpm the pump will pump it faster than it flows back to the sump - especially if you do any mods to the passages and install a hv pump.




this is not meant to be argumentative but i really wish people would get a better handle on fluid dynamics. pressure, clearances and viscosity determine how much oil flow there is through the engine. the "high volume pump emptied my pan" mindset is just plain wrong.

for that application a stock system (as Mike mentioned) should be fine but i would still want continuous, regulated oiling to the valve gear

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392198
02/23/13 01:02 AM
02/23/13 01:02 AM
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Quote:

Working on my 440. Shooting for 500hp. Basic 10to1 mill. Nothing exotic. Iron heads, roller rockers & a solid cam in the range of .540-.590. Race only mill with a deep pan.

Question: Can I get some oiling mod advise & at what point should I consider a single/dual line system? They're not cheap. What mods would you do?


You don't need a external oiling system for that power level unless your planning in spiining the motor above 7000 RPM for the last 1/8 mile of the 1/4 Put in a set of the Federal Mogul narrow full groove truck main bearings , use a oil pan that holds at least 5 quarts, preferrably 6 quarts or more, use a high volume pump and cut the bypass spring down so it has 65 lbs revved up above 4500 RPM with hot oil, use a stock Mopar windage tray and make your self a tight fitting(.060 to .045 clearances cold to the rotating assembly ) crankshaft scraper Use non synthetic 5W20 or 5w30WT oil, that combination of parts and oil works real well in all of my motors BTW, what year body style is this motor going into? If a 1966 and above B or E body the Mopar style 1970/71 Street Hemi/ 440 6 pak oil pan works excellent on the street and at the track with the stock 3/8 pick up My 518 C.I. low deck stroker motor used those parts and has went 9.96 at 134.6 MPH on Oregon pump gas through the mufllers in my 3450 lb Duster I did have to keep the oil level above the add mark, if it got below the add mark the motors oil pressure would fall off after letting off at the end of the 1/4 IHTHs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392199
02/23/13 08:13 AM
02/23/13 08:13 AM
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oh wait.but hey.lets see.oh yeah.
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Going to a 1/2 inch pickup does little unless you do some other mods.I had them here that my machinist did to my 440 when he opened them up.Rocky


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Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392200
02/23/13 05:27 PM
02/23/13 05:27 PM
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80fbody Offline OP
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I'm going to run a 7qt pan with a tray for sure. Will look into a scraper as well. The car is a '68 Dart. Oh & I do have full groove mains for it.

I like the idea of grooving the #4 cam journal. Do they make a grooved cam bearing for this so I could switch cams easily if needed?

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392201
02/23/13 07:08 PM
02/23/13 07:08 PM
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oil is the lifes blood of any race engine. stay with the internal pick up if you like but all them 90* tight bends in the casting are a restriction i'd rather live without. my junk pokes out 700 odd horses & a single external line helps me sleep better when i'm pulling 7k. when you compare the size of the inlet of the various pumps we see a 3/8 = 0.400, the 1/2 should be 0.500 but it is undersized at 0.480(i measured to check this) but an external single line Milodon pick up is 0.640 which is 50+% bigger than the 3/8. since a pump is limited by how much it can suck into the inlet to how much it can produce under pressure, i'd be going for a pump inlet as big as you can afford since too much oil don't damage your motor but too little does.

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: rebel] #1392202
02/23/13 09:22 PM
02/23/13 09:22 PM
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Quote:

oil is the lifes blood of any race engine. stay with the internal pick up if you like but all them 90* tight bends in the casting are a restriction i'd rather live without. my junk pokes out 700 odd horses & a single external line helps me sleep better when i'm pulling 7k. when you compare the size of the inlet of the various pumps we see a 3/8 = 0.400, the 1/2 should be 0.500 but it is undersized at 0.480(i measured to check this) but an external single line Milodon pick up is 0.640 which is 50+% bigger than the 3/8. since a pump is limited by how much it can suck into the inlet to how much it can produce under pressure, i'd be going for a pump inlet as big as you can afford since too much oil don't damage your motor but too little does.




With all due respect, WAYYY overkill for what the OP is doing.

And too much oil may not "damage" your motor, but it costs HP and wastes money...



This engine needs nothing more than quality stock stuff and a bit of attention to detail.

Here is the FAST MW that I built that went 10.30's @134 through the manifolds in Ed Cooks black 63 plymouth...Spun many times well past 7K. never any oil problems.

Yep, stock hemi pan and 3/8" pickup.

MB

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: 80fbody] #1392203
02/24/13 12:37 AM
02/24/13 12:37 AM
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Quote:

I'm going to run a 7qt pan with a tray for sure. Will look into a scraper as well. The car is a '68 Dart. Oh & I do have full groove mains for it.

I like the idea of grooving the #4 cam journal. Do they make a grooved cam bearing for this so I could switch cams easily if needed?


I'm almost sure nobody makes one, you could have one done and put it in after having it grooved I have all my cams grooved that didn't have them to start with


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: Cab_Burge] #1392204
02/25/13 11:48 AM
02/25/13 11:48 AM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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The oil system is no place to skimp,For any race engine we recommend at least a external single line system and a mimimum 7 quart pan.

Re: BB Oil Pump Questions [Re: rebel] #1392205
02/25/13 02:43 PM
02/25/13 02:43 PM
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Utah and Alaska
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Quote:

too much oil don't damage your motor but too little does.



Actually too much pressure can wipe out the babbit in the bearings. I knew of an engine builder that always used high pressure pumps and he got a few back with warranty issues that had wiped mains, the oil acted like a pressure washer and erroded the babbit, the bearing shells looked like they were cut out similar to the grand canyon. Tim


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