904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
#1386542
02/12/13 09:38 PM
02/12/13 09:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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OP
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
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i have a 73 dart sport that has been lightened a great deal,but no fiberglass yet.all said and done with me in it im hoping for 3000lbs.id like alot of street miles and performance handling and do some open track roadcourse days.it may go to the drag strip a few times but no slicks.
rear end right now is 8 1/4 open 3.55 but if need be i have an 8 3/4 pumpkin 3.23 and can gat a housing for free
engine is
.030 383 /906 heads,hardened seats,big springs,light port work
street hemi lobes reground on cam core from delta
stock rebuilder cast pistons
1 3/4 headers,no exhst yet
action plus intake
choice of lots of carbs-eventually e85
so there is a big block 727 tranny behind it whos history is a mystery-looks rebuilt not long ago and doesnt smell burnt-i have a backup big block stock tranny as well
i was thinking i could sell the big block cores and use my stock driveshaft (this will save about $150)and put 904 behind itwith a jw ultrabell and it may not cost me anything
pros:
904s are way easier to find than big block trannies
less drag?how much?
lighter?how much?
some times low gear set
maybe one day swap in an a518
a little more engine setback
negs:
strength
which 904 to use?999,904,v8,slant six-are any stronger than the rest?
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1386543
02/13/13 12:09 AM
02/13/13 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You can find a 518 trans dirt cheap(people dont know they are a 727 yet... you might want to swap the input and the pump to run a high stall conv(old style input shaft)... the 904 is a fine trans and with a hopped up 383 can handle it... but the 518 is better...you will still need the bell change to fit a BB OR just use a 727... the 518 offers a OD if you drive it on the street... this is what I went with on my Rampage and being a total new build I could have used anything EDIT You have to find a 1 wire OR a 3 wire type 518 trans.. these are the ones that work without a computer 
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 02/13/13 12:15 AM.
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1386544
02/13/13 12:30 AM
02/13/13 12:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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Washington State, USA
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yep ive had my hands on some 518s but with the gears i have i dont think the overdrive would be much help so to make it worthwhile id need a gear swap,plus driveshaft,plus tranny.i think ill wait for that when more motor come along-i have a forged rb crank in the garage  i really want to set this car up for road racing but to hear evryone talk if you dont have a smallblock in the front of your car youll drive right thru the first turn and into the wall  so im trying to get as much power to the ground with as little lbs as possible.im hoping a 904 has a better chance of survival on a road course where torque isnt as violent as drag racing. however an a518 puts alot of lbs in the middle/bottom of the car so maybe itll help balance and o/d would be nice on long straits 
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1386545
02/13/13 11:59 AM
02/13/13 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
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Do you already have the ultrabell , they aren't cheap. Sounds like your BB transmissions are cores , ignore the insane prices you see listed by the parts scalpers in the parts section here , BB CORE transmissions aren't worth that much unless you have some obscure number trans for a Hemi or 6pk application and even then ....  If you don't have the ultrabell yet it will be cheaper to get a new driveshaft with 7290 joints than to use a driveshaft that may only have 7260 joints in it now . Plus you have a spare trans , you aren't going to stick a stock 904 that was behind a 318 behind a big block and have it live for very long unless you drive like an old lady .
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: JohnRR]
#1386547
02/13/13 01:04 PM
02/13/13 01:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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OP
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Posts: 168
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Quote:
Do you already have the ultrabell , they aren't cheap.
Sounds like your BB transmissions are cores , ignore the insane prices you see listed by the parts scalpers in the parts section here , BB CORE transmissions aren't worth that much unless you have some obscure number trans for a Hemi or 6pk application and even then ....
If you don't have the ultrabell yet it will be cheaper to get a new driveshaft with 7290 joints than to use a driveshaft that may only have 7260 joints in it now . Plus you have a spare trans , you aren't going to stick a stock 904 that was behind a 318 behind a big block and have it live for very long unless you drive like an old lady .
i think an ultrabell is like 350 right?a 727 will bring me at least 50 bucks from just scrap aluminum plus 150 saved on a driveshaft .i have an extra smallblock 727 i could chuck as well.i have 4 904 including one that has a broken bellhousing after it was removed.on craglist im betting the trannies i have will bring 100/75 each.
it would be nice to not marry myself to the big block 727 case while im still figuring this all out.when you need one they are a pain to find and for all i know the two i have are junk  a 904 from the jyd is 50 plus tax and come with a 30 day garantee.i cant see braking the small driveshaft with an open rear and street tires.
i have another question-i i get an ultra bell am i now married to a 904 or will they work on a 727 as well?
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1386548
02/13/13 01:06 PM
02/13/13 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
Evil Spirit
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,699
Newport, Mi
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For overdrive options, I'd use an A-500 instead of a 518 in his case. A properly prepped A-500 will take the power, is lighter, and takes less power to operate. That, or, dare I say it out loud, a GM 200R4.
Free advice and worth every penny...
Factory trained Slinky rewinder.........
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1386549
02/13/13 01:19 PM
02/13/13 01:19 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
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Quote:
For overdrive options, I'd use an A-500 instead of a 518 in his case. A properly prepped A-500 will take the power, is lighter, and takes less power to operate. That, or, dare I say it out loud, a GM 200R4.
i just checked and the price is 356 for a bb mopar to 904-so they wont work on a 727.
p body is right,an od probbly wont work on a roadcourse anyway.
our work trucks are gm od and they take a daily dose of abuse but i wouldent run one just becose of familiarity.i know where to find 904s and they are pretty much other peaples throw away trannies,come to think of it it fits with my whole car.its all junk no one else would bother with-dart sport, 383, 8 1/4.i paid for my 383 build by selling all my 440s.
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1386550
02/13/13 01:20 PM
02/13/13 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
For overdrive options, I'd use an A-500 instead of a 518 in his case. A properly prepped A-500 will take the power, is lighter, and takes less power to operate. That, or, dare I say it out loud, a GM 200R4.
My buddy runs a 700R4 behind a BB ford and he even
uses the lock up during racing... he gets like 3 more
mph out of it in lock up... he doesnt use the OD when
racing... thats on a heavy pick up(3900 lbs)
The reason I said the 518 is thats a 727 and the 500
is a 904... with what he is running a straight forward
re-build on the 518 would handle his power... the
500 being a 904 is gonna need some fancy stuff to
take any power... but that shouldnt be any issue and
yes its lite... I went with the 518 for the added
clutch area ...my engine is only 550 hp and 520 tq
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1386551
02/13/13 01:43 PM
02/13/13 01:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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OP
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Posts: 168
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Quote:
Quote:
For overdrive options, I'd use an A-500 instead of a 518 in his case. A properly prepped A-500 will take the power, is lighter, and takes less power to operate. That, or, dare I say it out loud, a GM 200R4.
My buddy runs a 700R4 behind a BB ford and he even
uses the lock up during racing... he gets like 3 more
mph out of it in lock up... he doesnt use the OD when
racing... thats on a heavy pick up(3900 lbs)
The reason I said the 518 is thats a 727 and the 500
is a 904... with what he is running a straight forward
re-build on the 518 would handle his power... the
500 being a 904 is gonna need some fancy stuff to
take any power... but that shouldnt be any issue and
yes its lite... I went with the 518 for the added
clutch area ...my engine is only 550 hp and 520 tq
light compared to what?an iorn 727?they are heavy and drink power.
if given the choice of a mild 383 with a 518 and a hotish 318 with a 904 i think the gas mileage would be close and (remember 323 gear) and the small block would beat it around a road course.
the right 518 are getting hard to find (no electronics)
id bet your friend has alot of cash in that 700r4.ive had friends shred thos with 305s.
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1386552
02/13/13 02:49 PM
02/13/13 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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light compared to what?an iorn 727?they are heavy and drink power. if given the choice of a mild 383 with a 518 and a hotish 318 with a 904 i think the gas mileage would be close and (remember 323 gear) and the small block would beat it around a road course. the right 518 are getting hard to find (no electronics) id bet your friend has alot of cash in that 700r4.ive had friends shred thos with 305s.
The 518 and the 500 with the OD are both heavy in
relationship to the stock 727 or the 904... the OD
is heavy... the case is a fair bit longer on either
of the OD units... on his 700R4 we did it our selves
and it doesnt has a lot of fancy stuff in it... the
biggest thing was getting the valve body right(which
took us about 4 or 5 times to get it right)... but
he says now if he changes over to anything else it
would be the 200R4
NOTE
I believe the OD unit is about 40# heavier than the
stock version 727.... but I needed the OD to run on
Drag Week to keep the revs down and to get better mileage
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Evil Spirit]
#1386555
02/13/13 05:33 PM
02/13/13 05:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
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Quote:
The front of the 904 or A-500 can be built with enough strength for 600ft/lbs of torque without using many aftermarket parts. As to the O/D unit, the A-500 can be upgraded to 518 parts - my buddies trans shop has done many of the A-500 RH40 units and swapped in 46-48 O/D clutch drums. As to the 200R4 - 700R4 debate, it doesn't really take any more parts to make a 200R4 take that kind of power than a 700R4 does, and the 200R4 is lighter and smaller than the 700. It also has the same gear ratios as the A-500, so it doesn't have the big RPM drop as a 700R4. Thats why I like the 200 over the 700. 
sounds great but i dont speak GM.id have to learn what to look for,how to build ect.i may go that way tho.my boss has a guy who rebuilds our work truck trannies for 700 total including parts,removal and install into the vehicle  we hate fork those trannies EVERY day.then again with the GM im back to building a driveshaft so that savings is lost.
the junkyards around here charge 50 for automatics,+20 for truck trannies(all 727)+20 for OD,+35 for core.
right now id rank my choices as follows:
904
gm
727
mopar od
this is a common debate for mopars-add more meat on the plate and you get more fat.big block needs a 727,big cooling sytem,and a dana to live.if you build a big block you may as well build 500 plus inches becose it costs the same then if you want double digit gas milage you need an overdrive or 323 in the rear.now you have a 3800 lb mid 11 sec car and in the other lane is a 360 magnum duster with a 904 and 391 gears.short slicks for the track,tall tires for the street running low twelves and getting the same gas milage as you for way less cost to build......now imagine that times a hundred when you show up to compete at a road course.the big block a518 dana car is going to get his tail whooped bad.
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Re: 904 behind stockish 383 w/ultrabell
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1386556
02/14/13 12:30 PM
02/14/13 12:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
Just-a-dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,454
Glendora Ca.
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Winchester my would be put a clutch and a 5speed in the car if you want it to go around corners it's a lot more fun and you have alot better driver input. If you are going big block stay low deck with alum heads, otherwize weight bias front to rear will get ugly.
"Just a Bracket car dressed up like a streetcar"
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