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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: sublimehemi]
#1378664
02/12/13 12:48 AM
02/12/13 12:48 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
wldtm
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
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Quote:
i have read that some of the guys here have ordered 1/2 stainless fuel line from fine lines that was pre bent...how did it fit?????
i am also considering ordering the return line in 3/8...i konw our cars came with 3/8 fuel with 1/4 return and i am wondering if 1/2 fuel and 3/8 return will fit with minor tweaking in factory location ???
i really want this set up to work for my 700hp efi project...any thoughts will help.i posted this under question and answer and got no response so any info will help...
I wanted to run stainless with the factory style quick connects on my efi system, and not use any AN adapters, but I could not flare the stainless with the hyrdaulic tool.
I went with aluminum, used scotch bright and put a brush finish on it. Now no rust on the inside or out, its easier to manipulate that steel or stainless, and was cheaper.
My opinion.
I also used the rock valley set up. Very happy with their set up.
JM
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
PM for details
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378665
02/12/13 09:53 PM
02/12/13 09:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Can't see it getting pressurized very much over whatever the pump feeding it is ?
Ahh...your right, after thinking about it...without a regulator or restriction after the pump, there would be no real pressure. 
The low pressure side is at or very near 0 psi. Using EFI rated rubber line with a 200 psi working pressure limit and EFI rated fuel line clamps, I'm sure this set-up will be safe, especially at such low working pressures. I did buy an Earl's tubing beader and put beads on all the line ends.
Last edited by jbc426; 02/12/13 10:15 PM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1378666
02/12/13 10:06 PM
02/12/13 10:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
The stock tank and modified sending unit.
Is your 2 micron filter on the suction side ?
It is a 2 micron filter/water seperator. These filters are 30 GPH flow with a very low restriction. I'm running a second one up front just before the surge tank.
http://shop.perma-cool.com/media/300016%20rev3.pdf
Last edited by jbc426; 02/13/13 01:06 AM.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378668
02/12/13 10:33 PM
02/12/13 10:33 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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I thought it was 12 inches total. I still have more aluminum line, but it would be hard to get the total ruber line down to 6 inches. I bet I could do it with less than 12 inches with the addition of a bit more aluminum hardline and a few more clamps, but that seems worse than what I have.
It's a just bit more $ to replace these lines with braided stuff or braided pushlock, which is no doubt better, but I'm not going to any NHRA tracks with this car.
This is a street car that may see very occasional time on a road course with minimal tech inspections.
The whole reason I went this route instead of the custom baffled fuel tank route was lower cost and better EFI fuel system performance with less than a full tank of fuel.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378669
02/13/13 12:55 AM
02/13/13 12:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Quote:
I thought it was 12 inches total. I still have more aluminum line, but it would be hard to get the total ruber line down to 6 inches. I bet I could do it with less than 12 inches with the addition of a bit more aluminum hardline and a few more clamps, but that seems worse than what I have.
It's a just bit more $ to replace these lines with braided stuff or braided pushlock, which is no doubt better, but I'm not going to any NHRA tracks with this car.
This is a street car that may see very occasional time on a road course with minimal tech inspections.
The whole reason I went this route instead of the custom baffled fuel tank route was lower cost and better EFI fuel system performance with less than a full tank of fuel.
Oops...your right, it's 12" for NHRA (I double checked)....and I'm not saying anything bad at all about the way you did it. I have a sumped and baffled aluminum Hot Rod Shop tank myself....but I needed a new tank anyways due to rust and it was only like $350 or so. It isn't for EFI....so I bought a Bosch 044 external inline pump and will just mount it as low as possible. I was just considering the idea of making my front mounted Nitrous enrichment fuel tank into a surge tank, but it has a o-ringed screw cap and was worried that it would leak if pressurized.....but I think I'm going to skip the surge tank since my tank is baffled and sumped.
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: Quicksilver440]
#1378670
02/13/13 01:42 AM
02/13/13 01:42 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought it was 12 inches total. I still have more aluminum line, but it would be hard to get the total ruber line down to 6 inches. I bet I could do it with less than 12 inches with the addition of a bit more aluminum hardline and a few more clamps, but that seems worse than what I have.
It's a just bit more $ to replace these lines with braided stuff or braided pushlock, which is no doubt better, but I'm not going to any NHRA tracks with this car.
This is a street car that may see very occasional time on a road course with minimal tech inspections.
The whole reason I went this route instead of the custom baffled fuel tank route was lower cost and better EFI fuel system performance with less than a full tank of fuel.
Oops...your right, it's 12" for NHRA (I double checked)....and I'm not saying anything bad at all about the way you did it. I have a sumped and baffled aluminum Hot Rod Shop tank myself....but I needed a new tank anyways due to rust and it was only like $350 or so. It isn't for EFI....so I bought a Bosch 044 external inline pump and will just mount it as low as possible. I was just considering the idea of making my front mounted Nitrous enrichment fuel tank into a surge tank, but it has a o-ringed screw cap and was worried that it would leak if pressurized.....but I think I'm going to skip the surge tank since my tank is baffled and sumped.
I started out with a 1968 carburated slant six fuel system, so I had to change almost everything when I decided to put a 5.9 Magnum and run the EFI. I intitially thought about going with stainless lines, but found out how hard it is to work with steel lines. It's tough to bend, straighten and manipulate into position etc. Aluminum can be challenging enough, but can be done neatly and safely. The larger the tubing the tougher the job, so 1/2 inch stainless line, even the pre-formed stuff would be tough to install.
I found out about the whole surge tank thing from the import tuners. They have problems with their fuel system sucking air with their factory baffeled fuel tanks, so they use these. I haven't seen another Mopar with this type of full-return flow set-up yet, and thought it was a good performance oriented alternative to what a lot of guys are doing to upgrade their fuel systems to support EFI.
The nice thing about it is that if you already have a return fuel system with a rear mounted electric pump and want to upgrade to EFI, all you need is a front mounted surge tank with an internal pump, a few feet of braided line, fuel rails, some fittings and a bypass regulator.
If you ever have problems with sucking air in your current system when the tank gets low, you can always add a simple surge tank. It makes things pretty simple and you wont need to touch the main tank.
Last edited by jbc426; 02/13/13 08:21 AM.
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: jbc426]
#1378671
02/13/13 09:57 AM
02/13/13 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
74yellowduster
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 167
maryland
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The stock tank and modified sending unit.
Is your 2 micron filter on the suction side ?
It is a 2 micron filter/water seperator. These filters are 30 GPH flow with a very low restriction. I'm running a second one up front just before the surge tank.
http://shop.perma-cool.com/media/300016%20rev3.pdf
should be 100 micron before the pump. 85 maybe. but not 2! 10 micron after the pump is sufficiently small, but never run a fine filter before the pump. 30GPH sounds kind of small, considering most pumps will put out 100GPH or more.
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: 74yellowduster]
#1378672
02/13/13 10:52 AM
02/13/13 10:52 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,277
West Coast, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The stock tank and modified sending unit.
Is your 2 micron filter on the suction side ?
It is a 2 micron filter/water seperator. These filters are 30 GPH flow with a very low restriction. I'm running a second one up front just before the surge tank.
http://shop.perma-cool.com/media/300016%20rev3.pdf
should be 100 micron before the pump. 85 maybe. but not 2! 10 micron after the pump is sufficiently small, but never run a fine filter before the pump. 30GPH sounds kind of small, considering most pumps will put out 100GPH or more.
It is on the small side, but according to the calculations I've found on-line, 30 GPH filtered down to 2 microns is sufficient for 400 hp with a BSFC of .45. My motor is only going to have about 300hp for a while.
I'll have to add another pre-filter and install a larger low-side pump when I upgrade the motor.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: 1/2 stainless from fine lines for efi ?
[Re: 74yellowduster]
#1378675
02/13/13 12:13 PM
02/13/13 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
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Quote:
what i was trying to say is this: 10micron after pump (fine particles) 100 micron before pump. you never want a fine 10 micron (or 2 micron!) on the suction side of a pump. it will cause the pump to overwork, overheating, cavitation at the pump inlet section and will damage the pump.
here's an example of how to set it up from holley's site.
aeromotive says the same thing. 100micron or bigger before pumps, 10 micron after.
I had these exact problems when I used a 40 micron Mallory cartridge style filter before my pump (carbed application). And thats exactly the way they show you to install it in the Mallory instructions too. It caused all kinds of problems after about 1/2 hour of running.....
First time I pulled the cartidge filter out, it was half collapsed too. Put a new cartridge in and had the same issues again until I fixed my installation (put it post pump).
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