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Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376564
01/27/13 12:10 AM
01/27/13 12:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
M
moparniac Offline
master
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Posts: 6,295
U.S.
nice


Mopar Performance
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: moparniac] #1376565
01/27/13 02:00 AM
01/27/13 02:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,998
GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
3
340RICK Offline
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GO BUCKS !!!!!!!
Nice, I almost atemptted this on my 3G but I pussed out. My local dyno guy told me i could a LS chivy computer for like 40.00 bucks at the junkyard and anyone can tune the HP tuner software easily. But building the wiring harness scared me off and I bought a FAST XFI/XIM setup.

Cant wait to see how it turns out for ya

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: 340RICK] #1376566
01/27/13 02:15 AM
01/27/13 02:15 AM
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Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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prochargedhemi Offline
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Temperance, MI
the ls harness is one of the easiest production harnesses i have ever had to dissect. there is a handfull of pink wires that need fulltime 12v, a few orange wires that need switched 12v, then your grounds and you are set to go. I think the biggest thing is what you do with the pcm. having all the right things removed is vital

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: prochargedhemi] #1376567
01/27/13 03:16 AM
01/27/13 03:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,877
Oregon
hooziewhatsit Offline
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Oregon
Very nice! At some point I was going to look at adapting the Ford 5.0 system again, but coil on plug would be nice

Does this system use a MAF, or is it speed density?


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: hooziewhatsit] #1376568
01/27/13 03:33 AM
01/27/13 03:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 951
Temperance, MI
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prochargedhemi Offline
super stock
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Temperance, MI
MAF

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: hooziewhatsit] #1376569
01/27/13 03:43 AM
01/27/13 03:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
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Quicksilver440  Offline OP
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Central Valley, CA.
Quote:

Very nice! At some point I was going to look at adapting the Ford 5.0 system again, but coil on plug would be nice

Does this system use a MAF, or is it speed density?




I'm on my phone typing this, so I'll be brief. But it can actually be ran either way. MAF or Speed density can both be done....it's all in the tune. But the stock systems use a MAF. In HIGH HP forced induction engines, speed density is usually the way to go.

Last edited by Quicksilver440; 01/27/13 03:45 AM.
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376570
01/27/13 05:37 AM
01/27/13 05:37 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
Nice

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376571
01/27/13 08:04 AM
01/27/13 08:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,657
Fitchburg,Massachusetts
MPerry Offline
Mopahts memba'
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Fitchburg,Massachusetts
Cool stuff.

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: prochargedhemi] #1376572
01/27/13 04:17 PM
01/27/13 04:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
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Central Valley, CA.
I've got a lot more to share about the project, but I'll just do it a little at a time. I have 100's of hours in researching this stuff and have lists of part numbers, etc. that I'll eventually post as well.

Back to the subject of throttle bodies, another option is to use the stock cable style throttle body (or a stock ported or aftermarket version) using either an adapter or an elbow. This is actually the better option for procharged or turbo applications.

A stock throttle body costs under $50 too...A ported stock throttle body can be had from $50-75 and even some aftermarket stock style throttle bodies can be had for under $100. Throttle body to 4150 intake elbows can be had under $100 as well. This option can greatly reduce the cost of an EFI conversion. For $150 you could have this part of the conversion covered.

7563525-elbows_main.jpg (3631 downloads)
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376573
01/27/13 04:40 PM
01/27/13 04:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
Mike Swann Offline
super stock
Mike Swann  Offline
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Posts: 1,093
Long Beach, CA
Good write up!

I sold all of my carbs 8 years ago and went EFI. I am working on a new project and will likely adapt the LS1/7 system with HP tuner. There are several threads on the bullet with guys running this and getting 1100-1200HP with stock parts.


8.30's @3400 lbs
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376574
01/27/13 05:03 PM
01/27/13 05:03 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick Offline
Still wishing...
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Downtown Roebuck Ont
Quote:

Here's another:




Just a question. Will that crank wheel not upset your crank balance?

Kevin

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Twostick] #1376575
01/27/13 05:05 PM
01/27/13 05:05 PM
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Posts: 2,401
Tucson, Arizona
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MRMOPAR Offline
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Tucson, Arizona
Coil on plug and header clearance! Seems like custom headers would be required.


68 RR 528" INDY MAXX 07 2500 CTD Southwest International Raceway - IHRA - Tucson, AZ
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: MRMOPAR] #1376576
01/27/13 05:08 PM
01/27/13 05:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,657
Fitchburg,Massachusetts
MPerry Offline
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Fitchburg,Massachusetts
Quote:

Coil on plug and header clearance! Seems like custom headers would be required.




Look at the coils on page 1. They aren't really coil on plug. They have spark plug wires so shouldn't be an issue.

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Quicksilver440] #1376577
01/27/13 05:52 PM
01/27/13 05:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67 Offline
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Norrland, Sweden
I'm building a 512 based on the B-block, with almost identical parts.
- My research led me to the LS2 D585 coils WITH heatsink, these are supposed to give a much fatter spark than the other similar ones...?
- I'm trying to get rid of the distributor by installing a cam sensor in the timing cover, but all details not sorted out yet.

Keep up the good work!!


Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Swedcharger67] #1376578
01/27/13 06:35 PM
01/27/13 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,021
Tulsa OK
Bad340fish Offline
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Great info in this thread. Thanks for posting this information. EFI is something I really want to do.

How will this compare to a megasquirt system as far as ease of tuning?


68 Barracuda Formula S 340
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: MPerry] #1376579
01/27/13 07:45 PM
01/27/13 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
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Central Valley, CA.
Quote:

Quote:

Coil on plug and header clearance! Seems like custom headers would be required.




Look at the coils on page 1. They aren't really coil on plug. They have spark plug wires so shouldn't be an issue.




Thats correct...I should really call it Coil-PER-plug. One coil per plug....

7563751-F46940908.gif (706 downloads)
Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Swedcharger67] #1376580
01/27/13 07:56 PM
01/27/13 07:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
I Live Here
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Central Valley, CA.
Quote:

I'm building a 512 based on the B-block, with almost identical parts.
- My research led me to the LS2 D585 coils WITH heatsink, these are supposed to give a much fatter spark than the other similar ones...?
- I'm trying to get rid of the distributor by installing a cam sensor in the timing cover, but all details not sorted out yet.

Keep up the good work!!




Those coils are supposed to be good too, I saw many sources saying those D585's were the way to go. Others saying the D581's that I bought were the best...like I said they are all pretty good, with the regular LS1 coils being the weakest of the bunch?

I've thought about the cam sensor behind the timing cover too....Please share if you get that worked out, it would be nice to get rid of the big distributer housing all together. After getting this running, I planned on trying to come up with something similar.

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Bad340fish] #1376581
01/27/13 08:17 PM
01/27/13 08:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
I Live Here
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Quote:

Great info in this thread. Thanks for posting this information. EFI is something I really want to do.

How will this compare to a megasquirt system as far as ease of tuning?




I really don't know the Megasquirt software....so I can't really compare. I use the HPtuners software which is very intuitive and has great support on their website forums.

But...another great thing about using the LS PCM's is that instead of tuning it yourself (many people don't want to learn it or go through the trouble), you have the option of having one the LS tuners which are virtually everywhere (even mail order) tuning your car instead. Thats what most Chevy guys do....they don't all tune their stuff themselves, they have a tuner doing it. As a matter of fact, I have a shop that specializes in LS cars (and has built/tuned a car that recently won a fastest street car race by over 1/2 a second at a national event at Pomona and won won a Wally for their efforts) that is interested in providing tunes (even mail order) for LS PCM'd Mopars. Just to be upfront...it's my brothers shop...

Or those who want to tune themselves can buy the HPtuner Software for $499. Considering you pay under $40 for a PCM....it's a viable option.

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Twostick] #1376582
01/27/13 09:41 PM
01/27/13 09:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766
Central Valley, CA.
Quicksilver440 Offline OP
I Live Here
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Central Valley, CA.
Quote:

Quote:

Here's another:




Just a question. Will that crank wheel not upset your crank balance?

Kevin




Thats a good question....I don't think those holes, that far out on the crank snout would affect balancing much considering all the oil slinging around on a crank, etc.

I've been running around for the last year with that pulley/reluctor on my car and certainly can't feel anything, but that doesn't mean much.

Re: My 440 EFI- Coil on Plug & LS PCM ignition project [Re: Twostick] #1376583
01/27/13 10:04 PM
01/27/13 10:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
Curt Offline
super stock
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Posts: 1,030
JAX FLA
Thats what i thought too... A quote from engine builder mag...



So what does this actually mean in terms of the forces generated inside an engine? An imbalance of only 1/4 oz. (7 grams) located four inches out from the center of the crank on a counterweight will generate a force of about 7 lbs. at 2,000 rpm. At low rpm, you would hardly feel a thing. But at 8,000 rpm, that same force would grow to 114 lbs. with every revolution of the crank. If this same engine had one ounce (28 grams) of imbalance, the forces generated would be multiplied by a factor of four, generating 456 lbs. of unwanted gyrations at 8,000 rpm! That’s enough vibration to rattle your teeth and pound the heck out of the main bearings. It’s also wasted motion that goes into shaking the block instead of spinning the crankshaft. Consequently, imbalance hurts horsepower as well as smoothness and engine longevity.

Curt

Awesome info though. Curious about the signal from the cam sensor unit though. Does the cam sensor pictured produce a compatible signal to function with the LS ECM? Looks to be a hall effect unit. Any idea the timing of the required cam signal in crankshaft degrees, Advance or retard?
Thanks

Last edited by Curt; 01/27/13 10:13 PM.

Oh yeah...THAT'S gonna leave a mark!
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