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#1369912 - 01/23/13 08:11 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: CHAPPER]
TrWaters Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 2129
Loc: Vermont
Quote:

The last 5.7 I found for a build, had 4 main bearings spun and one cam bearing spun. Appeared to have been ran out of oil for some reason. Maybe oil pump failure or just lack of oil in pan. The cam bearing housing bore checked OK and the main bearing housings will be align bored/honed with new caps, as the original caps were very loose fitting.




I had one (5.7) similar. Spun main and spun cam bearing. The cam actually seize in the bearing. Had to pound the camshaft out.

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#1369913 - 01/24/13 08:12 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: TrWaters]
Quickrunner Offline
mopar

Registered: 03/10/10
Posts: 436
Loc: Indianapolis In. usa
Soaking this in like a sponge! Planing a gen 3 hemi for my 71 demon street strip 10.5 tire project.
_________________________
05 Ram 1500 Daytona package
71 Demon Gen3 hemi drag radial project
2004 Jeep Liberty
09 Challenger R/T 6spd

Missin' my 9 second 70 runner!

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#1369914 - 01/24/13 12:17 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Malicious�]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

I see a few references to the bottom ends being "weak". Just a suggestion, if you're gonna post something like that you better have solid proof to back it up and not just be posting BS hearsay rumors that probably spawned from a Chevy site.




Fact....In 2011 at the US Nat's, 1 of 5 DP Challenger's with a G3 lost an engine, whether a 5.7 or 6.1.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369915 - 02/05/13 04:01 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3125
Loc: The Netherlands
While replacing a 5.7 crankshaft the other day I noticed the maincap bolts are marked with 10.9 strength numbers. Would've thought TTY bolts would be a bit softer.
I learned the maincap-bolts are stretchbolts, but I didn't think strong/hard bolts like these could be used as TTY could they?

Torque-specs for the main-bolts is 27 lb/ft and then a 90 degree extra turn.

Can anyone provide the exact length of new/stock sized main bolts?
I wonder how much a torqued TTY bolt has stretched compared to a new bolt.
_________________________
BigBlockMopar.com


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#1369916 - 02/05/13 04:45 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: BigBlockMopar]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

While replacing a 5.7 crankshaft the other day I noticed the maincap bolts are marked with 10.9 strength numbers. Would've thought TTY bolts would be a bit softer.
I learned the maincap-bolts are stretchbolts, but I didn't think strong/hard bolts like these could be used as TTY could they?

Torque-specs for the main-bolts is 27 lb/ft and then a 90 degree extra turn.

Can anyone provide the exact length of new/stock sized main bolts?
I wonder how much a torqued TTY bolt has stretched compared to a new bolt.




Wish I could help, but I always replace the mains with ARP fastners, which BTW changed their instruction spec's to install them like you would using tq to yield bolts. I tried their method once and that was enough. Thought I might have to use a breaker bar on the end of my digital tq wrench to get that extra 90* turn. Here are my spec's that I use when using ARP G3 main studs. Alighn hone main bearing housing to 2.7520 with studs @ 110# tq with oil. 25# on on the side bolts using Ultra gray between the block and washer.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369917 - 02/05/13 09:16 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
STEFF Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3670
Loc: Smyrna, South Carolina
Quote:

Quote:

While replacing a 5.7 crankshaft the other day I noticed the maincap bolts are marked with 10.9 strength numbers. Would've thought TTY bolts would be a bit softer.
I learned the maincap-bolts are stretchbolts, but I didn't think strong/hard bolts like these could be used as TTY could they?

Torque-specs for the main-bolts is 27 lb/ft and then a 90 degree extra turn.

Can anyone provide the exact length of new/stock sized main bolts?
I wonder how much a torqued TTY bolt has stretched compared to a new bolt.




Wish I could help, but I always replace the mains with ARP fastners, which BTW changed their instruction spec's to install them like you would using tq to yield bolts. I tried their method once and that was enough. Thought I might have to use a breaker bar on the end of my digital tq wrench to get that extra 90* turn. Here are my spec's that I use when using ARP G3 main studs. Alighn hone main bearing housing to 2.7520 with studs @ 110# tq with oil. 25# on on the side bolts using Ultra gray between the block and washer.




Not sure what you're talking about Jerry. I just installed the crank in my new motor and the ARP instructions were straight forward......100ft.lbs. on the studs/nuts and 25ft. lbs. on the cross bolts.

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#1369918 - 02/05/13 11:42 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: STEFF]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

While replacing a 5.7 crankshaft the other day I noticed the maincap bolts are marked with 10.9 strength numbers. Would've thought TTY bolts would be a bit softer.
I learned the maincap-bolts are stretchbolts, but I didn't think strong/hard bolts like these could be used as TTY could they?

Torque-specs for the main-bolts is 27 lb/ft and then a 90 degree extra turn.

Can anyone provide the exact length of new/stock sized main bolts?
I wonder how much a torqued TTY bolt has stretched compared to a new bolt.




Wish I could help, but I always replace the mains with ARP fastners, which BTW changed their instruction spec's to install them like you would using tq to yield bolts. I tried their method once and that was enough. Thought I might have to use a breaker bar on the end of my digital tq wrench to get that extra 90* turn. Here are my spec's that I use when using ARP G3 main studs. Alighn hone main bearing housing to 2.7520 with studs @ 110# tq with oil. 25# on on the side bolts using Ultra gray between the block and washer.




Not sure what you're talking about Jerry. I just installed the crank in my new motor and the ARP instructions were straight forward......100ft.lbs. on the studs/nuts and 25ft. lbs. on the cross bolts.




Maybe ARP changed their install tq #'s again? IDK? All I know is that I have the very first set of G3 ARP's main stud's in my G3 engine as well has their head stud's. I asked for their required tq spec's...they told me "your the one that ordered these, tell me what you want". At first they suggested 85# tq on the mains. They were wrong.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369919 - 02/06/13 10:49 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
CHAPPER Offline
master

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3399
Loc: Belpre,Ohio
Just got a new stud kit from ARP....100# on the large 25# on the cross bolts...dab of RTV under washers of side bolts.
_________________________
If you like drag racing, support your local track.

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#1369920 - 02/06/13 12:54 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: CHAPPER]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

Just got a new stud kit from ARP....100# on the large 25# on the cross bolts...dab of RTV under washers of side bolts.




Fred, is that per their instructions now?
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369921 - 02/07/13 06:46 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
CHAPPER Offline
master

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3399
Loc: Belpre,Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Just got a new stud kit from ARP....100# on the large 25# on the cross bolts...dab of RTV under washers of side bolts.




Fred, is that per their instructions now?




Yes
_________________________
If you like drag racing, support your local track.

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#1369922 - 02/10/13 03:06 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: CHAPPER]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2462
Loc: Ontario Canada
What are the differences in an 03-08 5.7 hemi valves and where the rockers sit to the 09 and up?
Do the 09 and up 5.7 use a longer valves and is where the rocker shaft sits raised up?

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#1369923 - 02/12/13 03:56 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: MattW]
Moparmal Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3891
Loc: Melbourne.....Oz-land
So here’s a summary of the issues I’ve confronted installing a crate 6.1 into an Aussie A body.

The problems Ive listed are common to US A bodies also.

Our engine bay is the same size as a Duster or Demon.

TTI MOUNTS

Using the TTI adapter mount and biscuit style insulators - You can expect an extreme pinion angle, a crooked engine (front to rear) and very little valve cover clearance on the right side inner guard (as viewed from the driving position)

These adapters are badly measured up and other US forums have verified that these issues effect US A bodies as well.

FIX - Centre the engine,

Or

Remove .5" out of the left side TTI Aadapter - this has the effect of lowering the front of the motor and provides more clearance between the motor and the right inner guard.

OIL SYSTEM

DIPSTICK - Milodon are discovering that their 6.1 dipstick is the wrong length.

FIX – ATM they are modifying them on a “return” basis….hopefully they’ll wise up and fix the issue.

MILODON PAN GASKET – Variety of issues – Stud hole not large enough, splash tunnel not deep enough, etc

FIX – Do what I did…use the factory splash tray/gasket and trim the ears off it and drill two extra holes to match the Milodon pan.

OIL FILTER – The TTI right side adapter mount fouls on the TTI block off plate.

FIX – Some small grinding required.

Or,

FIX – Run a Dakota angled filter mount – a shorty filter and some grinding is required.

In any case, clearance for remote oil hoses is tight between the auxiliary oil ports and the Alt.

ALTERNATOR

CLEARANCE - 6.1 passenger Car Alt sits too low and fouls the right frame rail.

FIX – Provided the engine mount problems are fixed…the Jeep Cherokee 6.1 Alt provides more clearance to the inner guard.

The difference in available clearance is about .5"

Or,

FIX - Buy a March pulley kit system

Or,

FIX - Clearance the inner fender fold with a grinder.

REGULATOR CONNECTOR – The modern G3 Alt. has a twin post external regulator socket.

FIX – Connect one to the F(-) on the reg and the other to 12V switched.

CURRENT – The G3 Hemi Alts can make 150 or 160 amps – This will fry the old factory ammeters at full load.

FIX – Fit an extra “shunt” wire that runs from the Alt. post to the starter relay – this “splits” the current and makes it highly unlikely your car will ever draw enough load through the existing Alt wire to cook your ammeter. Use 10 or 12 gauge wire.

SENDERS

COMPATIBILITY - My crate 6.1 runs non-compatible senders to the later MSD Hemi 6 ECU harness.

FIX – Buy later 5.7 Cam and Crank sensor if using the later Msd harness with the MSD ECO.

STARTER

CLEARANCE - The two rear most pan bolt lugs on the left side interfere with the body of the Mopar mini-starter.

FIX – The two left rear-most oil pan bolt lugs cast into the block must be trimmed back to allow clearance for the starter when using the Mopar mini starter.

Or,

Use a 2005 Ram starter. (This may interfere with TTI headers)

RADIATOR

INLET/OUTLET - LOCATION AND DIAMETER - There is no direct compatible radiator for the A Body / G3 6.1 conversion.

FIX - Champion makes a “B Body 6.1 radiator” – however although on the correct side - the inlet / outlet pipe diameters are reversed.

They ARE on the correct side however– so with modifications its still probably the cheapest option.

Hope this helps guess looking into this conversion
_________________________
1971 Aussie Charger

Now with. - SRT 6.1 HEMI, 218 @ .50
3650lbs , Dual quads!! - 11.7 @ 115.4



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#1369924 - 02/16/13 09:52 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: CHAPPER]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8060
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Can someone post the differences between the different Gen III hemi cam cores, valvetrain, and timing chains? Oil pumps?? Vital info needed!
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#1369925 - 02/20/13 03:58 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
Moparmal Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3891
Loc: Melbourne.....Oz-land
I can tell you the tensioners are different between the 5.7 and the 6.1

I believe the base circle on the cams are different also.

6.1s run a valve spring "shield" intended to control spring "squirm"

6.1s originally came with a "blue stripe" intake valve spring - this is allegedly a higher seat and open pressure than the "green stripe" you'll find in most later crate motors.

Probably not much help to you but there ya go.....

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#1369926 - 02/21/13 07:46 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Moparmal]
AlexP Offline


Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 10554
Loc: Houston, Tx
Quote:

I can tell you the tensioners are different between the 5.7 and the 6.1

I believe the base circle on the cams are different also.

6.1s run a valve spring "shield" intended to control spring "squirm"

6.1s originally came with a "blue stripe" intake valve spring - this is allegedly a higher seat and open pressure than the "green stripe" you'll find in most later crate motors.

Probably not much help to you but there ya go.....




Thats all true. The stripe color changed, and when it changed...the quality (open and closed spring pressure) dropped.

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#1369927 - 02/22/13 11:12 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: MattW]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

What are the differences in an 03-08 5.7 hemi valves and where the rockers sit to the 09 and up?
Do the 09 and up 5.7 use a longer valves and is where the rocker shaft sits raised up?




The 5.7 G3 Hemi heads use the same valves. 2.00"int/1.55" exh. The 5.7 G4 Hemi heads use a 2.05"int/1.55"exh and the valves are taller thus moving the rockershafts higher and wider than the G3's.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369928 - 02/22/13 03:01 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2462
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:

Quote:

What are the differences in an 03-08 5.7 hemi valves and where the rockers sit to the 09 and up?
Do the 09 and up 5.7 use a longer valves and is where the rocker shaft sits raised up?




The 5.7 G3 Hemi heads use the same valves. 2.00"int/1.55" exh. The 5.7 G4 Hemi heads use a 2.05"int/1.55"exh and the valves are taller thus moving the rockershafts higher and wider than the G3's.





Thank you sir.


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#1369929 - 02/23/13 06:17 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Moparmal]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

I can tell you the tensioners are different between the 5.7 and the 6.1

I believe the base circle on the cams are different also.

6.1s run a valve spring "shield" intended to control spring "squirm"

6.1s originally came with a "blue stripe" intake valve spring - this is allegedly a higher seat and open pressure than the "green stripe" you'll find in most later crate motors.

The G3 5.7 valve spring's also use a "sheild", cup, damper or whatever you want to call it, but from my experience, the tab's have beeen known to break off so I went to a spring locator with shim's.


Attachments
7600653-Sharadon5.7PictureDay4007.JPG (229 downloads)



Edited by hemidup (02/23/13 06:18 PM)
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369930 - 02/23/13 06:26 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
Guitar Jones Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/09
Posts: 8746
Loc: in a cattle trailer down by th...
Quote:

Quote:

I can tell you the tensioners are different between the 5.7 and the 6.1

I believe the base circle on the cams are different also.

6.1s run a valve spring "shield" intended to control spring "squirm"

6.1s originally came with a "blue stripe" intake valve spring - this is allegedly a higher seat and open pressure than the "green stripe" you'll find in most later crate motors.

The G3 5.7 valve spring's also use a "sheild", cup, damper or whatever you want to call it, but from my experience, the tab's have beeen known to break off so I went to a spring locator with shim's.




From my experience as a dealer tech the original valve springs did not have that sleeve. They were prone to breakage and objectional noise. The TSB to replace all the valve springs came with the replacement springs that had that sleeve on them. I don't really think it was to address any "squirm" issue but rather more a noise issue.
_________________________
W5 408 cid, 1.324, 6.155 @ 110.34, 9.756 @ 134.67 with a broken converter hub. Oh yeah, it's all Mopar too, 904 trans and an 8.75 rear!!

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#1369931 - 02/23/13 06:41 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Moparmal]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
I might also offer that guy's with no computer exsperience, ie laptop, data logging, etc...Stay away from EFI and go with a carb. You can adjust your idle speed with the same ole screw driver you used from the 60's vs waiting for an email tune. Every EFI build I've been envolved with, somehow, someway got married to the car as far as tuning is concerned.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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