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#1369892 - 01/17/13 10:58 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
AlexP Offline


Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 10554
Loc: Houston, Tx
Quote:

Do the Gen III Hemis use throw away stretch to yield bolts? Where?

Primary head bolts. The secondaries are reuseable.

I see a lot of the gaskets appear to be reusable. Please post your experiences.

I've seen people take apart the multi layer steel gaskets and reshim them to gain or lose compression. I've never tried it.
How good/bad is the stock timing chain? Good low priced alternative? High hp high rpm alternative?

I like the OE dodge ones, but manley has an adjustable offering I believe.

At what point do tie bars for the rocker shafts start to really show a hp gain?

You wont see power from them, just stability and resistance to failure.
The Hemi heads flow so well, the reaction to various cams must be different than say a stock small block. Anyone care to share what they know about duration,ICA and LSA?

That's a broad subject. I might be able to drum up some good conversation about that.
Can the new Hemi heads run a higher compression ratio in comparison to an aluminum head small block?

Yes, aside from the fact that it is aluminum...the fact that it's a dual plug and an awesome chamber helps the most.





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#1369893 - 01/20/13 07:39 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: AlexP]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8055
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
With the drag pack cam, (229int 236 ex duration, 110 lobe seperation) what kind of torque curve am
i looking at with a 3.888 arm? Any idea where to install it? My guess is start at 104? This will be a street motor with the Edelbrock dual four combo and two 500 cfm carbs, SRT8 jeep manifolds for exhuast.
Thanks very much to all those that have contributed, and keep it coming.
One thing I heard was the motor should be pre oiled, can be done through a pipe plug by the oil filter mounting location . Anyone care to add to that ? (equipment, does the motor need to be turned over, etc)
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#1369894 - 01/20/13 07:51 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
Kindafast Offline
pro stock

Registered: 10/11/05
Posts: 1582
Loc: Seaford, Va
While my 5.7 was a stock .30 over rebuild , I had no problem dry starting mine. I filled the oil filter up and it didn't roll over about 1 full turn and fired right up.. It took just a couple of seconds to build oil pressure , just like a oil change.. For that small amount of time I don't see any reason not to dry start them..


Attachments
7554177-1-IMG_2341.JPG (497 downloads)

_________________________
New best 8-19-2013 6.49 @ 103 in the 1/8
Street legal pump gas. Thanks to Magnum Machine and R/T Racing

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#1369895 - 01/20/13 11:52 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
John_Kunkel Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 18750
Loc: Rio Linda, CA

After seeing this pic I think I would avoid using the factory (powdered metal) rods.


Attachments
7554462-2011-07-11_16-06-35_929.jpg (739 downloads)


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#1369896 - 01/20/13 12:52 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: John_Kunkel]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8055
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Quote:


After seeing this pic I think I would avoid using the factory (powdered metal) rods.



I have a set of rods out of a Drag Pack motor. I also see a lot of guys on the internet having reasonable life out of their motors after being hot rodded some, so I have to ask about the rod failure, how much rpm, any boost involved, timing, fuel, rpm, etc to find out what is the danger zone?
On the block, I beleive the 5.7 has a fair amount of meat in it, but needs to be sonic checked to go beyond the minimum anyway. This may not be true on the 6.1 or 6.4. I talked to Chuck Lofgren about it, but only remember what was needed with my build, the 5.7 block.
It is too bad they limited this motor to four bolts per cylinder. That is a big obstacle to overcome (if it can be at all) beyond a certain boost level.
One more thing, Anyone with solid evidence that some facts presented hear are wrong, please say so. A lot of what I have written here is second hand info, not hands on experience.
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#1369897 - 01/20/13 01:20 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: John_Kunkel]
ou812 Offline


Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 5299
Loc: SoCal
We will be assembling our Gen3 Hemi next month and have it on the dyno by the end of the month. Unlike previous engine builds for CC where we take pics BEFORE the build, I will have BEFORE pics available, but we will be tearing the engine apart AFTER the dyno session and taking pics then.

We are looking for problems as well since we have to stand behind every engine we build and we don't want anything coming back or failing!

Once we do that, I'll probably start a thread about things we find. I believe it won't detour any work away from our shop but more importantly bring us work by helping others out and sharing info that will encourage potential customers to have us do work for them because we instill confidence BY SHARING our findings.
We don't have to give away all build info to help guys out so they have reliable engines IMO.

From what I can see, some light massaging of the passages will make a big difference, Manley oil pump and timing set, aftermarket crank is a nice upgrade (plus more TQ and HP)if you go with more stroke.
Our builds will be based on 5.7 blocks and 09' and later 5.7 heads. The cam cores are really cool looking as they are very beefy and heavy!!

Just received our Ritter intake so now it's time to finish machining and assemble. We're also using Clevite H series bearings and Diamond pistons.
Crank is a Scat 3.900 unit with a 6.200 rod so we can use shelf Diamond pistons meant for the 4.050 stroke and 6.125 rod.
Brian
_________________________
Brian Hafliger

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#1369898 - 01/20/13 08:10 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: ou812]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8055
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Brian, thanks for adding to the thread. This thread, and your build and subsequent thread should really move forward the info provided on this site!
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

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#1369899 - 01/21/13 12:22 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4284
Loc: Nebraska
Thanks Greg for getting this rolling, I know there alot of guys who need to "come out of the closet" with what they have figured out about these little monsters.
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1369900 - 01/21/13 05:12 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: 72Swinger]
Tom_Q Offline
top fuel

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 2269
Loc: out riding & passing you
Great thread and idea.

Some one in charge should compile the info from the individual posts into a Gen III Hemi FAQ document and update the tech bulletin from time to time.

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#1369901 - 01/21/13 05:35 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Tom_Q]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3119
Loc: The Netherlands
Good topic.
I'm building a 5.7 for my daily '73 Dart at the moment.

The motor I bought for this project turned out to have a badly worn no.8 journal.
The rodbearing on no.6 was also spinning already.

What I noticed was that the pistons didn't move freely on the rods. Especially on no.8, which was pretty tight.
I wonder if other engines has this problem aswell, and maybe some of the failure-rates can be also 'blamed' on the piston-pins getting stuck in the pistons due to lack of (general) oiling?
The heads looked dirty and black-ish on top aswell. Probably lack of oil, or/and engine operatingtemps too high?

_________________________
BigBlockMopar.com


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#1369902 - 01/21/13 07:51 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: BigBlockMopar]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8055
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Thanks guys. We can keep this near the top and keep getting more info with a little effort!
Here is a link to a lot of info- basic stuff.
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/new-mopar-hemi.html


Edited by gregsdart (01/21/13 08:00 AM)
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

Top
#1369903 - 01/21/13 07:53 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: BigBlockMopar]
Malicious� Offline
master

Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 8780
Loc: Toronto
I see a few references to the bottom ends being "weak". Just a suggestion, if you're gonna post something like that you better have solid proof to back it up and not just be posting BS hearsay rumors that probably spawned from a Chevy site.

In the mean time, go for a street ride atop a 9.50-second 1200 HP Grand Cherokee SRT8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdPcNz_y6EQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj15UbJxBBc

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#1369904 - 01/21/13 07:59 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: BigBlockMopar]
CHAPPER Offline
master

Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 3399
Loc: Belpre,Ohio
The last 5.7 I found for a build, had 4 main bearings spun and one cam bearing spun. Appeared to have been ran out of oil for some reason. Maybe oil pump failure or just lack of oil in pan. The cam bearing housing bore checked OK and the main bearing housings will be align bored/honed with new caps, as the original caps were very loose fitting.
_________________________
If you like drag racing, support your local track.

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#1369905 - 01/21/13 08:12 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Malicious�]
gregsdart Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 8055
Loc: Frostbitefalls (Rocky&Bullwink...
Quote:

I see a few references to the bottom ends being "weak". Just a suggestion, if you're gonna post something like that you better have solid proof to back it up and not just be posting BS hearsay rumors that probably spawned from a Chevy site.

[/url]


That is the purpose of this thread, to get to the bottom of a lot of info and finally compose a good reference for all to use. If you have something to add as to how far a particular version of our beloved Gen III Hemi can be pushed, please post. Most builds will start with some stock parts, so that is where we need the most input.
_________________________
GREG
Educated at SHK U
Measure with yardstick
mark with chalk
cut with torch!



528 cubic inch alky injected 440-1 wedge, 3055 race weight.
8.779 at 153.16 mph. 1.289 60 ft. density altitude 1617 feet. Best 60 ft 1.24

Top
#1369906 - 01/21/13 09:03 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: ou812]
MattW Offline
top fuel

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2462
Loc: Ontario Canada

Once we do that, I'll probably start a thread about things we find. I believe it won't detour any work away from our shop but more importantly bring us work by helping others out and sharing info that will encourage potential customers to have us do work for them because we instill confidence BY SHARING our findings.
We don't have to give away all build info to help guys out so they have reliable engines IMO.

That right there is the first most important statement that I have seen in a while. BIG to you Brian. I dont need your HP secrets, Just put to bed this oiling issue. Looking forward to your posts. Matt

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#1369907 - 01/21/13 09:39 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: MattW]
BigBlockMopar Offline
master

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 3119
Loc: The Netherlands
Here's a little tidbit I found that describes oilpump differences between 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi's.

Quote:

Chrysler 6.1L Hemi (2005 and newer): The M362 oil pump is a new replacement pump for late model Chrysler 6.1L Hemis. It replaces Chrysler 5037687AB, and features a 15 PSI higher pressure relief spring to accommodate oil jets to cool the pistons. For the 5.7L Hemi, Mellings M342 oil pump replaces the stock Chryslers 53021622AF pump. Mellings 10342 Select Performance high pressure pump can be used with either the 5.7L or the 6.1L Hemi engines.


_________________________
BigBlockMopar.com


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#1369908 - 01/21/13 02:33 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: gregsdart]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

Quote:


After seeing this pic I think I would avoid using the factory (powdered metal) rods.



I have a set of rods out of a Drag Pack motor. I also see a lot of guys on the internet having reasonable life out of their motors after being hot rodded some, so I have to ask about the rod failure, how much rpm, any boost involved, timing, fuel, rpm, etc to find out what is the danger zone?
On the block, I beleive the 5.7 has a fair amount of meat in it, but needs to be sonic checked to go beyond the minimum anyway. This may not be true on the 6.1 or 6.4. I talked to Chuck Lofgren about it, but only remember what was needed with my build, the 5.7 block.
It is too bad they limited this motor to four bolts per cylinder. That is a big obstacle to overcome (if it can be at all) beyond a certain boost level.
One more thing, Anyone with solid evidence that some facts presented hear are wrong, please say so. A lot of what I have written here is second hand info, not hands on experience.




I've sonic checked dozen's of G3 blocks. The thickest ones are from 2002 Ram 2500 5.7's but those are rare to get. Most of the 03 and newer 5.7's can easily withstand a .060" over bore whereas most 6.1 blocks only .020". My for the day.
_________________________
Jerry Williams.

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#1369909 - 01/21/13 02:57 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: hemidup]
AlexP Offline


Registered: 09/08/03
Posts: 10554
Loc: Houston, Tx
I just traded a 6.1 .030 block that needed another .010 to clean up for a stock bore 6.l plus cash. For my blower build I plan on going .005 if I can get away with it and .010 at most.

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#1369910 - 01/22/13 04:47 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: AlexP]
Cevidicus Offline
member

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 72
Loc: San Angelo, Texas
What about the VVT blocks? How beefy are they? How much power can they take in stock form? Will that Eagle oil pump interchange with the Appache oil pump? Is there a difference between the timing sets? How much cam can the stock eagle springs take?

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#1369911 - 01/22/13 09:44 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid,,,,,,,,, [Re: Cevidicus]
hemidup Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 833
Loc: MN
Quote:

What about the VVT blocks? How beefy are they? How much power can they take in stock form? Will that Eagle oil pump interchange with the Appache oil pump? Is there a difference between the timing sets? How much cam can the stock eagle springs take?




From what I've seen, the 6.4 block looks to be the beefiest of them all. The bottom of the cylinder walls are casted the same as the World aluiminum block. Basically what you get is a partial filled factory block, however I'm not to happy with the looks of the narrrow 6.4 timing chain. I think forum member STEFF has an answer to this as well as member CHAPPER who has the answer with his custom spring locator's when using the Manley 5.7/6.1 NexTek Series replacement springs on 6.1 G3 heads.


Edited by hemidup (01/22/13 09:50 PM)

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