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#1862996 - 07/03/15 05:06 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
mcat4321 Offline
master

Registered: 08/04/03
Posts: 2921
Loc: cincinnati ohio
Originally Posted By hudsonhornet7x
Thanks guys, I am confused by EFI and am trying to learn as much as I can before the engine is in.

One last thing. Would tuning the engine with a magnuson supercharger be harder than N/A?

not harder, just different

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#1870833 - 07/15/15 09:51 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
WO23Coronet Offline
master

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 3790
Loc: Canada
There's a member on the truck forum asking about Gen III builds:

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...tml#Post1869917

Thought I'd link it so some of the more knowledgeable guys could comment in case they didn't see it

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#1872508 - 07/17/15 06:01 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 3574
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.

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#1872523 - 07/17/15 06:30 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
hudsonhornet7x Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 973
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.



That bit of info is very interesting. Where do you find the electronic portion for the swap?
_________________________
XP29H8B198192

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#1872531 - 07/17/15 06:42 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: hudsonhornet7x]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 3574
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Go back into early post of the guy who put a Gen111 in a 70 RR (he had a big write up on body stiffing also), he found some one to make up the control. I have it bookmarked so I'll go find it.

Guys name is Darius on for b body's only. Body stiffing


Edited by cudaman1969 (07/17/15 06:49 PM)

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#1872885 - 07/18/15 12:18 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8900
Loc: Charleston
I was told not to do it. I insisted.

4 of 8 piston oilers broke off. 4.08 stroke
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#1872890 - 07/18/15 12:23 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: sixpackgut]
hudsonhornet7x Offline
super stock

Registered: 01/14/12
Posts: 973
Loc: Plumer, Pa
Originally Posted By sixpackgut
I was told not to do it. I insisted.

4 of 8 piston oilers broke off. 4.08 stroke




Too much stroke in relation to the oilers?
_________________________
XP29H8B198192

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#1872910 - 07/18/15 12:58 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion

Registered: 06/08/03
Posts: 8900
Loc: Charleston
Idk, plenty of clearance. I really dont know
_________________________
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135

performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs

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#1873672 - 07/19/15 04:27 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
ntstlgl1970 Offline
mopar

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 531
Loc: Sac, CA, USA
Darius has been struggling to get his car driving right, he is in the same car club as me. To my knowledge he is not running the NAG1 as a stand alone....

The NAG1 is the same as the mercedes transmission that they use in a bunch of different chassis with a different id - I think it's called a 722.6 or something like that.

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#1878948 - 07/27/15 06:08 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
Moparmal Offline


Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 3891
Loc: Melbourne.....Oz-land
Hi all - a while back I promised that Id do a genuine comparison between the Modman 6.1
intake and the Edekbrock 5.7 dual quad dual plane.

I experienced significant tuning issues with the Modman running both single and dual carbs - (333 RWHP) and it only really worked half way decent when I installed a full height divider (346 RWHP)

Below is the dyno chart ( same dyno..similar atmospherics) showing three (3) runs

The BLUE line was the Modman with divider - this netted a 11.9@ 114mph

The MIDDLE RED is the EDDY - same carbs - 360 rwhp

The Upper RED is the Eddy with twin 1" 4 hole spacers. - 368RWHP


The Eddy had a home port match to the 6.1 heads.

I think this proves conclusively that the Modman is a JUNK NA intake.

My guess is that the carbs are losing about 15 rwhp to the EFI....

Drivtrain losses ~ 100hp verified by mph/ weight at the track.



Edited by Moparmal (07/27/15 06:11 AM)
_________________________
1971 Aussie Charger

Now with. - SRT 6.1 HEMI, 218 @ .50
3650lbs , Dual quads!! - 11.7 @ 115.4



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#1879856 - 07/28/15 08:21 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
Shawndp Offline
member

Registered: 07/28/15
Posts: 7
Loc: New York
A 545rfe is your best choice. I picked mine up for $400 with 29 k miles. It is controlled by the engine computer so you only have one module the nag uses a variety of sensors all over the car. Hotwireauto.com told me to use the 545 cause it was simpler and cheaper than doing a nag trans a gear vendor od will run about $3000

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#1888939 - 08/10/15 03:43 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
wegner426 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 310
Loc: Castle Rock, CO
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.


Are yo sure they fit with no cutting? The link to the only well documented install I have seen is below. As you go through the pages you will see they end up cutting the tunnel and the crossmember.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?7651-Ma-s-cuda-A-long-time-coming/page4
_________________________

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#1888992 - 08/10/15 04:51 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: wegner426]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 3574
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By wegner426
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.


Are yo sure they fit with no cutting? The link to the only well documented install I have seen is below. As you go through the pages you will see they end up cutting the tunnel and the crossmember.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?7651-Ma-s-cuda-A-long-time-coming/page4

Look up Darius, that's his post name, he can tell you everything you need to know. Did all this to a 70 RR. He has a great post on b-body's only.

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#1889008 - 08/10/15 05:20 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
wegner426 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 310
Loc: Castle Rock, CO
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By wegner426
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.


Are yo sure they fit with no cutting? The link to the only well documented install I have seen is below. As you go through the pages you will see they end up cutting the tunnel and the crossmember.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?7651-Ma-s-cuda-A-long-time-coming/page4

Look up Darius, that's his post name, he can tell you everything you need to know. Did all this to a 70 RR. He has a great post on b-body's only.


Thanks for sharing this build, but it looks like the cutting of crossmember and tunnel starts on page 3.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?1121-B-Body-stiffening/page3
_________________________

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#1889137 - 08/10/15 09:00 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: wegner426]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 3574
Loc: fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By wegner426
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By wegner426
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Couldn't find the other post on the Nag1 trans so I'll put it here. The output yoke is for a fixed driveshaft (no up and down). Found a simple solution, a 2006 Dodge Sprinter has a different yoke(four finger instead of three) that allows a u-joint type driveshaft to be attached. Replace the yoke (bolts on)and use a junk yard drive shaft. There is electronics now for this trans(five speed) and they are plentiful in salvage yards for about 500 apiece and they fit with no cutting. I think this is the same trans MB puts in the 500 hp AMGs.


Are yo sure they fit with no cutting? The link to the only well documented install I have seen is below. As you go through the pages you will see they end up cutting the tunnel and the crossmember.

http://www.forebodiesonly.com/forum/showthread.php?7651-Ma-s-cuda-A-long-time-coming/page4

Look up Darius, that's his post name, he can tell you everything you need to know. Did all this to a 70 RR. He has a great post on b-body's only.


Thanks for sharing this build, but it looks like the cutting of crossmember and tunnel starts on page 3.

http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?1121-B-Body-stiffening/page3


With the smaller yoke I showed I think you might get away without cutting anything other than the 4 bolt mount crossmember to fab the mount to the trans.

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#1890396 - 08/12/15 03:39 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: cudaman1969]
wegner426 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 310
Loc: Castle Rock, CO
I have a Nag 1 on the garage floor and the trans is out of my car, which is a 4 speed car. I may try to slide it up there this weekend if I get time to see if it fits but I am fearful it won't without cutting the tunnel, assuming you want a factory driveline angle.
_________________________

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#1890647 - 08/12/15 09:25 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: wegner426]
cudaman1969 Offline
master

Registered: 01/25/04
Posts: 3574
Loc: fredericksburg,va
From looking at my trans it might get close where the trans rolls down to output flange. I would check mine but I'm still welding up front frames, sub frame connectors, floors and firewall, all in jigs.

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#1904691 - 09/02/15 02:11 AM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
Street Monkies Offline


Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 161
Loc: In a house near you
Roughly what is the cost to build one of these engines for drag race use? From low to high cost.

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#1905202 - 09/02/15 05:37 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4284
Loc: Nebraska
I traded a 19 yr old BB for my 6.1 core and probably put another 7K in it with EFI and all.
Headers: 800
Pan and pickup: 500
4.05 stroke rotator: 2300
cam used: 200
timing set: 90
lifters used: 100
Manley pushrods: 120
Manley springs: 350
Head work: 1400
Oil pump: 150
ATI balancer blem: 200
EFI setup: 1700
gaskets: 200
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1905267 - 09/02/15 07:42 PM Re: Gen III Hemi, please post things to avoid and know.. [Re: gregsdart]
Street Monkies Offline


Registered: 08/26/14
Posts: 161
Loc: In a house near you
Thanks! I'm thinking about doing a build out there in the future for something different. Maybe by the time I'm ready the 6.4 will be an easy buy. That's unless some other deal comes up. Never know.

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