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IMO, you can get away without an external oil cooler. You still might want to monitor it ( oil temp gauge ). A quality full synthetic oil would be a must. I run a 408 that is about 3/4 filled. No H20 temp problems and oil hasn't gotten over 215 after about 3/4 hour driving around town. The rest of you set up could make a difference though. My oil supplier said that oil temps in the 250 range is not a problem.

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I was hoping you would chime in as I did some searching here before posting and saw your posts about your machinist adding some filler to you stroker block but you had not ran it yet to see if it would overheat.

You mentioned in your other posts quality synthetic oil...What brand oil are you using if you don't mind me asking? As for maximum or dangerous oil temps, is 250 kinda the standard there?

I would definitely invest in a temp gauge at the very least (assuming sending unit in the bottom of the pan, or is there a more accurate location to read from?), but if this will require an external oil cooler im not sure its something I would want to do.

Hopefully some others who may have street driven with filled blocks can offer some input as well

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I have run several "half filled" (whatever it means) BB's in the street, and I think there is not much difference in how the small block works. With about a 1/4 fill no problems, with about half fill problems with long highway driving. The oil got hot and lost it's viscosity and the oil pressure came down, something like 30 in the highway and about zero at idle. Synthetic brought that up some 10-15 psi and haven't played with those things ever since. E 85 will definitely make a difference keeping things cooler overall. With ethnol or methanol engines, one problem is getting the oil warm enough. I would use an engine oil cooler in the street with a filled block, although despite of the drop in oil pressure, there never was any sign of damage.

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NO ONE mentions about piston-ring-travel and FILLING IT to the second ring travel down-the-bore ?

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What do you mean?

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From what I have been told ... you don't want to fill the block any HIGHER than the lowest part of the second ring travel. BECAUSE you want good piston-heat-transfer into the bore and coolant.

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IMO, you can get away without an external oil cooler. You still might want to monitor it ( oil temp gauge ). A quality full synthetic oil would be a must. I run a 408 that is about 3/4 filled. No H20 temp problems and oil hasn't gotten over 215 after about 3/4 hour driving around town. The rest of you set up could make a difference though. My oil supplier said that oil temps in the 250 range is not a problem.

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I was hoping you would chime in as I did some searching here before posting and saw your posts about your machinist adding some filler to you stroker block but you had not ran it yet to see if it would overheat.

You mentioned in your other posts quality synthetic oil...What brand oil are you using if you don't mind me asking? As for maximum or dangerous oil temps, is 250 kinda the standard there?

I would definitely invest in a temp gauge at the very least (assuming sending unit in the bottom of the pan, or is there a more accurate location to read from?), but if this will require an external oil cooler im not sure its something I would want to do.

Hopefully some others who may have street driven with filled blocks can offer some input as well

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Drilled and taped my drain plug for the oil temp sender. My block is filled well above the freeze plugs. I run Royal Purple 10W40 race oil. Most people don't run oil temps high enough. You want something over 212 just to boil the H20 out of it. I run 4.56 gears, but it's not a street car. Yes, the temp goes up after a pass, but I have a hard time getting the temp up to 170 in staging, so I leave, actually, too cold.

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Thanks for the info, and picture as well

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E-85 runs 30% more fuel through the engine keeping
the temp lower... hell I have a hard time keeping temp
in my race car with E-85... I always put the temp sensor
in the pan drain plug(just drill and tap for 1/8" pipe)
we did it this way in the lab all the time ...
I'm going to be running trans temp in my Rampage along
with water temp... what I'm doing is using elec gauges
so I will flip switch to check either temp on a single gauge..
like was just said if your temp gets up the pressure
drops.... to me I would monitor the temp for a bit
but if it got over 230 I'd put a cooler on it in a
blink of an eye.... WHY melt down your engine for
the price of a cooler

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i ran a tall fill in a 360(414)for a long time @13.1comp brad penn or royal puple oil.tons of street driving and track passes no oil temp gauge ran super cool water temps never got over 180degrees.youll have no probs dont even sweat it.

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Ever had the engine apart to see how the bottom end looked? Was your oil always clean and unburnt when you drained it?

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i ran a tall fill in a 360(414)for a long time @13.1comp brad penn or royal puple oil.tons of street driving and track passes no oil temp gauge ran super cool water temps never got over 180degrees.youll have no probs dont even sweat it.

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Ever had the engine apart to see how the bottom end looked? Was your oil always clean and unburnt when you drained it?

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oil was always fine mind you i changed it often 2-3times a season,never lost any oil pressure not even after crusing a while.i ended up selling it to a memeber still running strong in his demon.i think your probably even ok without it but if you do it half fill i wouldnt worry whatsoever.

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I change my oil atleast twice a season as well....damn, this is getting tough to make the decision....I would rather not fill it if I don't have to, but I will be pushing well over 600 crank horsepower with spray and would like this thing to last as long as possible...I know an oil cooler really isn't a big deal if it needed one, but its just something else to install and another gauge to watch and worry about

gotta sleep on this one I think lol

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I really debated the idea of a partial fill on mine. I know that I drive lots and lots of street miles in stop and go traffic, and that cooling this thing is at a premium during the summer months - especially since I'm very fond of my AC.

So I chickened out, didn't do the fill and hoped for the best.

I hope I don't regret my decision somewhere along the line.

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If you are going to make over 600HP with a stock block, You should ( at least )half fill it - and go aftermarket main caps or a girdle. No question IMO on that one. You should also make sure the block sonic tests real good.

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Yes my sender is in the bottom of the pan.

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Duner, I know you have a turbo on that dakota...What kinda power at the crank do you estimate you are pushing? Or have you dynoed it? And how long have you had the combo together for?

Did you do anything other special prep to the bottom end? i.e. studded mains, girdle, etc.

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I put this together in 2006. I hurt a couple of pistons in 2008 and checked everything when replacing them. Everything looked great, no signs of cap walk even - so I put it back together and it's been driving on the street and going to the track pretty much every since.

The bottom end is just a forged Scat (stock 360 stroke) crank and Eagle H-Beams rods with the upgraded ARP rod bolts. Probe pistons. All internal balanced. Block is unfilled and stock 2-bolt mains. No girdle or anything like that. I'm still running the stock bolts for the mains as well. I generally try to keep it under 7,000 rpm - but occasionally mess up and get it to 7300-7500 rpm. I've since switched to a standalone and am using the rev-limiter at 7000 to keep me in line. LOL

I'm not sure what the actual HP is at the crank. Since it's turbo'd - the HP it makes is pretty variable. I've pretty much kept it at the 750rwtq, 550-600 rwhp level most of the time (126-127 mph trap speed), which is where it lives on the street on 91 octane - with excursions into the 700+rwhp range on occasion at the track with race gas. (just turn up the boost) I'm super-conservative with the timing on it, since if I want more power - I just turn up the boost instead of risking detonation looking for every ounce of power by upping the timing. Again, I do also run race gas at the track if I'm going to turn it up.

Pushing 4200# to 133.65 mph is the best so far for documented HP output. (that's when I hurt the pistons) That's thru a 46RE trans and Precision Industries 4,000 convertor. The Wallace calculator says that's 824 hp? I don't push it that hard all the time, but it's fun to shake things up once in a while.

I really believe the turbo setup is way easier on parts than NA or on the bottle.

Someday it will break. I've accepted that fact, but I'm still amazed at how much abuse it continues to take without complaints.... other than transmissions of course LOL

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If you are going to make over 600HP with a stock block, You should ( at least )half fill it - and go aftermarket main caps or a girdle. No question IMO on that one. You should also make sure the block sonic tests real good.

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When you say aftermarket main caps, are you referring to the 4 bolt ones? or are there 2 bolts that are available to add strength? I always thought adding 4 bolt caps to a stock block weakened it more than anything

Never been a big fan of girdles...Have always felt that most of the small block designs don't seem like they would do much...but thats just my opinion

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If you are going to make over 600HP with a stock block, You should ( at least )half fill it - and go aftermarket main caps or a girdle. No question IMO on that one. You should also make sure the block sonic tests real good.

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When you say aftermarket main caps, are you referring to the 4 bolt ones? or are there 2 bolts that are available to add strength? I always thought adding 4 bolt caps to a stock block weakened it more than anything

Never been a big fan of girdles...Have always felt that most of the small block designs don't seem like they would do much...but thats just my opinion

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Not a girdle fan ether. Went with Milodon 4 blt main set up on mine.

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IMO best caps for the small block that going to see street duty.
Ductile iron stong and same expansion rate as the block. Matt

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Duner, I know you have a turbo on that dakota...What kinda power at the crank do you estimate you are pushing? Or have you dynoed it? And how long have you had the combo together for?

Did you do anything other special prep to the bottom end? i.e. studded mains, girdle, etc.

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I put this together in 2006. I hurt a couple of pistons in 2008 and checked everything when replacing them. Everything looked great, no signs of cap walk even - so I put it back together and it's been driving on the street and going to the track pretty much every since.

The bottom end is just a forged Scat (stock 360 stroke) crank and Eagle H-Beams rods with the upgraded ARP rod bolts. Probe pistons. All internal balanced. Block is unfilled and stock 2-bolt mains. No girdle or anything like that. I'm still running the stock bolts for the mains as well. I generally try to keep it under 7,000 rpm - but occasionally mess up and get it to 7300-7500 rpm. I've since switched to a standalone and am using the rev-limiter at 7000 to keep me in line. LOL

I'm not sure what the actual HP is at the crank. Since it's turbo'd - the HP it makes is pretty variable. I've pretty much kept it at the 750rwtq, 550-600 rwhp level most of the time (126-127 mph trap speed), which is where it lives on the street on 91 octane - with excursions into the 700+rwhp range on occasion at the track with race gas. (just turn up the boost) I'm super-conservative with the timing on it, since if I want more power - I just turn up the boost instead of risking detonation looking for every ounce of power by upping the timing. Again, I do also run race gas at the track if I'm going to turn it up.

Pushing 4200# to 133.65 mph is the best so far for documented HP output. (that's when I hurt the pistons) That's thru a 46RE trans and Precision Industries 4,000 convertor. The Wallace calculator says that's 824 hp? I don't push it that hard all the time, but it's fun to shake things up once in a while.

I really believe the turbo setup is way easier on parts than NA or on the bottle.

Someday it will break. I've accepted that fact, but I'm still amazed at how much abuse it continues to take without complaints.... other than transmissions of course LOL

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If you are going to make over 600HP with a stock block, You should ( at least )half fill it - and go aftermarket main caps or a girdle. No question IMO on that one. You should also make sure the block sonic tests real good.

---

When you say aftermarket main caps, are you referring to the 4 bolt ones? or are there 2 bolts that are available to add strength? I always thought adding 4 bolt caps to a stock block weakened it more than anything

Never been a big fan of girdles...Have always felt that most of the small block designs don't seem like they would do much...but thats just my opinion

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Not a girdle fan ether. Went with Milodon 4 blt main set up on mine.

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I have to ask why the 4 bolt caps when most say it actually weakens the block? I have thought about it myself, and think its probably the single best thing one could do in the bottom end IF it wasn't said that the material there is too thin...I am just wondering what your reasoning was when you made that decision

Not saying 4 bolt caps are bad, because really, I've never installed them to know if they were to actually weaken a factory block...I am just going by what I read in so many places

I appreciate all the advice so far

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If you are going to make over 600HP with a stock block, You should ( at least )half fill it - and go aftermarket main caps or a girdle. No question IMO on that one. You should also make sure the block sonic tests real good.

---

When you say aftermarket main caps, are you referring to the 4 bolt ones? or are there 2 bolts that are available to add strength? I always thought adding 4 bolt caps to a stock block weakened it more than anything

Never been a big fan of girdles...Have always felt that most of the small block designs don't seem like they would do much...but thats just my opinion

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Not a girdle fan ether. Went with Milodon 4 blt main set up on mine.

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IMO best caps for the small block that going to see street duty.
Ductile iron stong and same expansion rate as the block. Matt

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