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Half Fill for street stroker SB???
#1367924
01/11/13 02:36 PM
01/11/13 02:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
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Hey guys, I am currently putting together a stroker 408 in a stock block 360. Im hoping to make a little over 500hp on the motor, and over 600 if I try to spray the house down with my cheater plate. The block is a 91 360LA roller block, that has already had all machine work done to it (only thing it doesn't have is main studs). My brother did a short fill on his Pontiac 400 block (he used Embecco 885) and he has tons of product left over that I was going to use. My question is how streetable would this be? I put a good 3000 miles a year on my car, and when I do drive it, I drive it at times for a couple of hours. Do I need an external oil cooler with a short fill? Or could I get away without one? Is a short fill even going to help me at all? Also, I know its more ideal to fill before machine work, but I have read many say they measured the block after filling and there was no difference. My current cooling system is a rad out of a junkyard 87 5th avenue with a clutch fan and shroud that never lets the car get hotter than 190 even sitting in traffic on 100-104 degree days. I know the water should technically be cooler since there is less of it and there will be less to cool...but I am worried about building heat in the bottom end and killing bearings. I run good oil, nothing boutique, but not sure its enough (Brad Penn Grade 1 10W40) What do you guys think? Any insight on this and experience is appreciated 
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367925
01/11/13 02:56 PM
01/11/13 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,635
Oakland, MI
dizuster
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Funny... this is one of those questions I LOVE answering... it's good to give answers from something so similar.
I have had my 360" turbo small block together for about a year now. It's a '91 Roller block. Machined first, then filled with Embecoo 885 after. No signs of ring seal issues at all.
I have an oil temp gauge on it, and it has never even come close to having an oil temp problem. 7qt Milidon Pan, Early 68 water pump, small radiator with single electric fan. The longest I've driven it at a time is probably about an hour. A few times on the freeway, and a few times on surface streets.
Not sure what you're planning for compression (read: heat), but mine is 9.2:1 with an iron head and a VERY small cam (read: lots of cylinder pressure).
I wouldn't worry about it for one second. The next one I do, I won't even bother putting an oil temp gauge on it.
Good luck with your build!
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367926
01/11/13 02:59 PM
01/11/13 02:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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IMO, you can get away without an external oil cooler. You still might want to monitor it ( oil temp gauge ). A quality full synthetic oil would be a must. I run a 408 that is about 3/4 filled. No H20 temp problems and oil hasn't gotten over 215 after about 3/4 hour driving around town. The rest of you set up could make a difference though. My oil supplier said that oil temps in the 250 range is not a problem.
Fastest 300
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: dizuster]
#1367927
01/11/13 03:01 PM
01/11/13 03:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
Funny... this is one of those questions I LOVE answering... it's good to give answers from something so similar.
I have had my 360" turbo small block together for about a year now. It's a '91 Roller block. Machined first, then filled with Embecoo 885 after. No signs of ring seal issues at all.
I have an oil temp gauge on it, and it has never even come close to having an oil temp problem. 7qt Milidon Pan, Early 68 water pump, small radiator with single electric fan. The longest I've driven it at a time is probably about an hour. A few times on the freeway, and a few times on surface streets.
Not sure what you're planning for compression (read: heat), but mine is 9.2:1 with an iron head and a VERY small cam (read: lots of cylinder pressure).
I wouldn't worry about it for one second. The next one I do, I won't even bother putting an oil temp gauge on it.
Good luck with your build!
Thanks for sharing man! I have a few questions for you, hopefully not too specific.
Your oil temp gauge I am assuming the sending unit is in the pan... Did you notice an increase in oil temps while on the freeway? how about at the end of a pass? I know you have 2.xx gears in that thing, so you probably turn way less rpm than me on the freeway and the streets (im going 4.10, 5000ish converter), and therefore make less heat. Is your fill to the bottom of the freeze plugs?
I am only running 10.5:1 compression, pump gas, 251/258 at .050" cam...Curious what kinda oil you use...and what is a safe oil temperature on a gauge anyway? lol
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: Crizila]
#1367928
01/11/13 03:04 PM
01/11/13 03:04 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
IMO, you can get away without an external oil cooler. You still might want to monitor it ( oil temp gauge ). A quality full synthetic oil would be a must. I run a 408 that is about 3/4 filled. No H20 temp problems and oil hasn't gotten over 215 after about 3/4 hour driving around town. The rest of you set up could make a difference though. My oil supplier said that oil temps in the 250 range is not a problem.
I was hoping you would chime in as I did some searching here before posting and saw your posts about your machinist adding some filler to you stroker block but you had not ran it yet to see if it would overheat.
You mentioned in your other posts quality synthetic oil...What brand oil are you using if you don't mind me asking? As for maximum or dangerous oil temps, is 250 kinda the standard there?
I would definitely invest in a temp gauge at the very least (assuming sending unit in the bottom of the pan, or is there a more accurate location to read from?), but if this will require an external oil cooler im not sure its something I would want to do.
Hopefully some others who may have street driven with filled blocks can offer some input as well
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367931
01/11/13 03:12 PM
01/11/13 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
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Mine wasn't filled, so I can't comment on that. I'll just share that my 2010 ram has a digital oil temp display and I've seen 250+ degrees on it when pulling my trailer up long steep hills at 4K+ rpm. This is with standard, nothing special oil from the dealer when they change my oil every 3K miles  I don't think you need to worry about the oil breaking down til beyond that temp. Oil and water temp are closesly related, oil takes longer to build heat, and longer to cool off.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mopar dave]
#1367932
01/11/13 03:16 PM
01/11/13 03:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
brad penn is good til 280*. my 360 block is short filled and I see 250* often. no oil cooler.
Is yours street driven? Is your sending unit in the oil pan?
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: Triple Threat]
#1367933
01/11/13 03:18 PM
01/11/13 03:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
Mine wasn't filled, so I can't comment on that.
I'll just share that my 2010 ram has a digital oil temp display and I've seen 250+ degrees on it when pulling my trailer up long steep hills at 4K+ rpm. This is with standard, nothing special oil from the dealer when they change my oil every 3K miles
I don't think you need to worry about the oil breaking down til beyond that temp. Oil and water temp are closesly related, oil takes longer to build heat, and longer to cool off.
Dustin, did you ever think about filling that block before you had built it? Anything deter you from it?
That tidbit about your ram is good info...do the trucks come with oil coolers from the factory?
Ideally I would really like to be able to do this WITHOUT a cooler
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: dOrk !]
#1367934
01/11/13 03:18 PM
01/11/13 03:18 PM
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Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
NO ONE mentions about piston-ring-travel and FILLING IT to the second ring travel down-the-bore ?
What do you mean?
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: 1Fast340]
#1367939
01/11/13 06:05 PM
01/11/13 06:05 PM
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Quote:
i ran a pretty tallfilled 340 block on the street,never had any trouble but then again i never had a gauge measuring the oiltemp either.used plain mineral oil also. who knows excesive heat in the oil might have killed my valvesprings alitle earlier and i lost a rollercam (not anything catastrophic, just the lifters starting to make groves in the closing ramps probably from bouncing lifter and valvefloat,wouldnt have been a problem if i had just keept a better eye on valvespring preasure and those valvesprings where far from new)due to loss of valvespringpreasure.
however it might be worse with a stroker since you have much longer piston travel making more heat further down in the bores i would suspect
im one of those that hate extra gauges they just make me nervous.
Good to hear more good experience...I don't really want to run another gauge as I am the same as you- its just another one that I will constantly be watching and worrying about...but its probably a good idea either way just to make sure
Was your engine filled before or after machine work?
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: dizuster]
#1367940
01/11/13 06:06 PM
01/11/13 06:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
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Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
I haven't seen over 200 under any situation yet. I just run rotella t diesel oil.
I do run e85 though, maybe that has something to do with it...
Damn that is low for oil temps...I wonder if the fuel does have something do to with it...Does E85 burn cooler? 
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: KOS]
#1367941
01/11/13 06:07 PM
01/11/13 06:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
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Quote:
i ran a tall fill in a 360(414)for a long time @13.1comp brad penn or royal puple oil.tons of street driving and track passes no oil temp gauge ran super cool water temps never got over 180degrees.youll have no probs dont even sweat it.
Ever had the engine apart to see how the bottom end looked? Was your oil always clean and unburnt when you drained it?
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367942
01/11/13 06:57 PM
01/11/13 06:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,932
Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
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I have run several "half filled" (whatever it means) BB's in the street, and I think there is not much difference in how the small block works. With about a 1/4 fill no problems, with about half fill problems with long highway driving. The oil got hot and lost it's viscosity and the oil pressure came down, something like 30 in the highway and about zero at idle. Synthetic brought that up some 10-15 psi and haven't played with those things ever since. E 85 will definitely make a difference keeping things cooler overall. With ethnol or methanol engines, one problem is getting the oil warm enough. I would use an engine oil cooler in the street with a filled block, although despite of the drop in oil pressure, there never was any sign of damage.
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: Half Fill for street stroker SB???
[Re: mshred]
#1367943
01/11/13 07:47 PM
01/11/13 07:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
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Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
NO ONE mentions about piston-ring-travel and FILLING IT to the second ring travel down-the-bore ?
What do you mean?
From what I have been told ... you don't want to fill the block any HIGHER than the lowest part of the second ring travel. BECAUSE you want good piston-heat-transfer into the bore and coolant.
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