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Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367638 01/11/13 10:06 AM 01/11/13 10:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	I'd probably leave it alone and tune on it. I found that my old 440 w/ the 528 liked a tighter lash. I went form the factory .028/.030 down to .024/.026 and it seemed to pull longer. The 850 is probably your best bet for a carb. The 516 probably don't flow as well, but they do give you more compression. If you do use the other heads at least do a gasket match home porting job before you drop them on. I'd think the 413 w/ some tuning would be at the 12.50 mark. The 509 would do it easier. But the 509 in the stock 400 would be a total dog.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1367639 01/11/13 11:34 AM 01/11/13 11:34 AM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 295 maryland B buck440 enthusiast
buck440 enthusiast B Joined: May 2010 Posts: 295 maryland	not a 400 but my bone stock bottom end 77 motor home 440 went 11.94 @114. in my 3650 lb duster thats with me in it. with nothing more than a 509,915 heads milled .060 no port work stockvalve size. torker intake 850 speed demon carb 3000 stall 4.56 gear.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367640 01/11/13 11:54 AM 01/11/13 11:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart master
gregsdart master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	I am assuming you are going to rebuild the shortblock with an over bore? Like the post on the 400 motor and MP cams shows, the more cam you put in it, the faster it will go. The limit is about the 590 cam. The 850 is a good choice for carb. Good machine work, file fit rings, as much compression as you can put in it, and 1 7/8 headers will all help. A solid lifter cam will allow more rpm giving more hp. One key is cylinder head prep. Bowl work and 2.14/ 1.81 valves will do a lot for the build. A good single plane manifold to match a 557 or 590 cam, and if you don't run high elevens something isn't right. This basic recipe put a 383 roadrunner into the low 12.0s at 3850 with a 268 @ .050 hydraulic 540 lift cam (stock stamped rockers!)that quit at 5600/6000 rpm due to valve float issues. You would have more cubes and a better cam if you go 557 or 590, and the ability to ring more hp out of it with more rpm. Last edited by gregsdart; 01/11/13 12:10 PM. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: buck440] #1367641 01/11/13 01:17 PM 01/11/13 01:17 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont	You mentioned a tunnel ram. Run it if you got it. Are any of your cylinder head choices "ready to run" ie milled, bigger valves etc? 516's will help with compression but if they need any work you might be better off shopping for a set of used Stealths or RPM's. You can pretty much guarantee 47 yr old heads are going to need valves and guides at the very least plus the machine work and valve job so you are right there money wise. Kevin

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: Twostick] #1367642 01/11/13 01:35 PM 01/11/13 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts MPerry OP Mopahts memba'
MPerry OP Mopahts memba' Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts	Tunnel ram is for a low deck so it won't work for the 413. I have more time than money at the moment. I know the 413 runs well so I will leave it be.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367643 01/11/13 07:02 PM 01/11/13 07:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,940 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,940 Holly/MI	Quote: Tunnel ram is for a low deck ......... I have more time than money at the moment. Hey Mike! More time than money spells buy/borrow a die grinder and template/bowl port the 516's, mill and get guides/seats done. I gained 3 mph through the traps when I ported my 516's. Well worth the time. Great thread. Glad to see there's some of us old schoolers out there that are just trying to have some fun on a budget. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1367644 01/11/13 07:26 PM 01/11/13 07:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts MPerry OP Mopahts memba'
MPerry OP Mopahts memba' Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts	Quote: More time than money spells buy/borrow a die grinder and template/bowl port the 516's, mill and get guides/seats done. I gained 3 mph through the traps when I ported my 516's. Well worth the time. Great thread. Glad to see there's some of us old schoolers out there that are just trying to have some fun on a budget. I have a nice die grinder where would I find the templates?

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1367645 01/12/13 12:02 AM 01/12/13 12:02 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker H HYPER8oSoNic top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic top fuel H Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker	Quote: not going to get there with that combo. Maybe 13.50 for 12's you are going to need more compression, some head work... can you use the 413? Hold up a sec, Mr. Y. You are forgetting he has an alternative to the longer arm of the 413. RPM potential!! He can spin it a bit less than a 383 to make power, (and a bit more than a 413) but overall make slightly better times than you posted. Mopar Muscle did a couple of builds on the 400 Mopar with very impressive results. Sure, the car could use a bit more gear, (4.10/4.30, cam depending) but for what he has already, he's almost there! The real power is in the cam and ignition timing and carb tuning. Not as easy as the 413, but you WILL be surprised when it's right!! Have to get carb/ignition spot-on for the combo to really fly!! Concerning the porting templates, Mancini or any major Chrysler Dealer sells them, the part number is P4120437, pretty reasonable. Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 01/12/13 02:57 PM.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1367646 01/12/13 12:55 AM 01/12/13 12:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV moparmanjames pro stock
moparmanjames pro stock Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV	Quote: The real power is in the cam and ignition timing and carb tuning. The real power is in the whole combination, but it's been my experience that a good set of heads is #1 in the combination.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: 493_DART] #1367647 01/12/13 01:05 AM 01/12/13 01:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV moparmanjames pro stock
moparmanjames pro stock Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,260 Las Vegas NV	Quote: Classic Moparts thread.......... with the parts listed and factory heads.... at 3700 lb .....high 12's. at 3300 with the out -dated 509 / out dated iron heads / 3:91/410 gear / slicks/ etc... you can get to 12.20 I went 12.50's @ 110 in my 3700lb Roadrunner with 3.23 gears. I built a 440 with home ported 516 heads, 10:1 compression, 509 cam, solid 7 blade fan with stock accessories and a 3500 stall/727 on MT Sportsman pro's driving it to the track here in Las Vegas.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367648 01/12/13 03:12 AM 01/12/13 03:12 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont	Quote: Tunnel ram is for a low deck so it won't work for the 413. I have more time than money at the moment. I know the 413 runs well so I will leave it be. I thought we were talking about a 400. Kevin

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: Twostick] #1367649 01/12/13 05:01 AM 01/12/13 05:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts MPerry OP Mopahts memba'
MPerry OP Mopahts memba' Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts	Quote: I thought we were talking about a 400. Kevin Yes the 400 is the intended subject. I would be able to use the tunnel ram on that. There was doubt about the 400 being capable of achieving the goal. That is how the 413 got mixed in the subject.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: moparmanjames] #1367650 01/12/13 02:45 PM 01/12/13 02:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker H HYPER8oSoNic top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic top fuel H Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker	Quote: Quote: The real power is in the cam and ignition timing and carb tuning. The real power is in the whole combination, but it's been my experience that a good set of heads is #1 in the combination. Obviously the heads are #1, but they were already talked about. His chosen combo (cam/carb and ignition timing) has to be set up and fine tuned (trial and error at the track) for max power. Seems like the poster wants to use what he has for the 400, and to RUN with less cash outlay possible. And YES it can be and HAS been done (since the B motor was built)! Thanks Dean for stating that point! Last edited by HYPER8oSoNic; 01/12/13 02:55 PM.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367651 01/12/13 03:13 PM 01/12/13 03:13 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,562 Downtown Roebuck Ont	I don't think there is much question whether 400 cubes can do the deed. There's no replacement for displacement but 13 cubes won't make or break you here IMHO. If you are using the stock short block with pistons .100"ish in the hole, compression will be less than ideal so I would want to use the best head I could lay my hands on. Any of the heads you have can be made to work for you but even the cost of a good rebuild and valve job will at the very least approach the cost of Stealths or Eddies so I would try and get a set used and reap the benefits of an aluminum head for very little additional cost. Best money you can spend. Assuming the short block is sound I would try the MP509 you have with a set of RPM's and the tunnel ram and call it a day. Kevin

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1367652 01/12/13 03:18 PM 01/12/13 03:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts MPerry OP Mopahts memba'
MPerry OP Mopahts memba' Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts	Well I'm going to give it a shot & find out. 12.50 or bust! I will be able to bracket race it either way.

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367653 01/13/13 10:05 PM 01/13/13 10:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker H HYPER8oSoNic top fuel
HYPER8oSoNic top fuel H Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,275 Desert Tracker	Takes a little bit of tuning work (on your part), but you'll hit the mark for sure. You'll have fun testing and tuning. Just remember to keep a SOLID baseline (reference point) BEFORE you tune!! "Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids" "Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1367654 01/13/13 11:08 PM 01/13/13 11:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc E earthmover top fuel
earthmover top fuel E Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 2,449 nc	keep us posted ... I will post on my 400 when I get it going...

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367655 01/14/13 01:22 AM 01/14/13 01:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Well I'm going to give it a shot & find out. 12.50 or bust! I will be able to bracket race it either way. do a pocket port on the heads you want to use... thats real easy to do.... the conv will make a big difference as well as the chassis set up... if your looking to go 12.50 in the heat you need to make it run 12.30 in good air and I'm sure some of these guys are telling you the best they ran... you need more gear but use what you have... the 509 might get close with the porting... also do a match port to the intake and heads... with your die grinder knock out any chunks in the runners and just smooth up the short turn on the heads... if you can have the heads milled some to clean them and make them flat will help... get the front of the car as loose as possible so it lifts and get some rancho 9000 shocks for the rear and I think you'll get there.... use your 850 carb

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MPerry] #1367656 01/14/13 12:14 PM 01/14/13 12:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw... gregsdart master
gregsdart master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...	Quote: Well I'm going to give it a shot & find out. 12.50 or bust! I will be able to bracket race it either way. I am not sure how well they will fit, but QUICKD100 had great success with a pair of Thermoquads on a Tunnelram Hemi. Might be a cheap alternative, and once dialed in, ought to run like scat!!! I am betting two tenths quicker than the best single plane deal. What I like about this combo is the small preimarys for cruise, and vacuum secondary's providing as much air as the combo will need for max power. As far as mounting, there is a way. Might need to get creative, but it can be done. I think I have two TQ to holley pattern adapters, and if you choose to try this combo, they are yours for the shipping. A couple of swap meet carbs, two rebuild kits and some jets and you are in business. Last edited by gregsdart; 01/14/13 12:18 PM. 8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky

Re: realistic et goal for a 78 400 [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1367657 01/14/13 12:17 PM 01/14/13 12:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts MPerry OP Mopahts memba'
MPerry OP Mopahts memba' Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,657 Fitchburg,Massachusetts	Quote: you need more gear but use what you have... I have another 3rd member with 4.30's on a strange spool if you think that is better.

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