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were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? #1362541
01/01/13 12:46 AM
01/01/13 12:46 AM
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dangina Offline OP
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or were they meant more for looks? I always thought the the challenger T/A abd Cuda rear spoilers were more function than looks...

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362542
01/01/13 02:23 PM
01/01/13 02:23 PM
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They are adjustable, so the can generate down force.

That being said, aero is so inherently bad on the cars of the era, any down force they might generate is negligible.

Furthermore, with the front end lift these cars have, the last thing you probably would want is more down force at the rear.

Last edited by 471Magnum; 01/01/13 02:46 PM.

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Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362543
01/01/13 03:31 PM
01/01/13 03:31 PM
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Just an FYI , 70 only for the Go wing , 71 only for the Gull wing .


They were more for looks over function.

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362544
01/01/13 04:37 PM
01/01/13 04:37 PM
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I have a generic "Go Wing" on my 'Cuda, mostly because I like the looks. IMO the rear looks a little incomplete without either a wing or a spoiler. As for function, the shape is correct [ flat on top, curved on the bottom ] and it is adjustable for rake. On the other hand it isn't very wide and it also sits rather close to the deck lid. Higher in the airstream would probably be better. The best I can say is that I don't think it creates much turbulance. I noticed that when driving in the rain the water droplets run straight back, no swirls or eddys. As noted previously the overall areo drag is pretty bad.

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362545
01/01/13 04:41 PM
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Of COURSE they were functional!!! They LOOK great!

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1362546
01/01/13 05:10 PM
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Quote:

Of COURSE they were functional!!! They LOOK great!




Depends on the body style , 70 B body , not so much

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362547
01/01/13 05:41 PM
01/01/13 05:41 PM
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Quote:

or were they meant more for looks? I always thought the the challenger T/A abd Cuda rear spoilers were more function than looks...




Ornaments...

Like previously stated...

'70-Ford(Go)...

'71-Gull...


Once again; 1971, an improvement over 1970...

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: RSNOMO] #1362548
01/01/13 11:26 PM
01/01/13 11:26 PM
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dangina Offline OP
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how about the challenger and cuda ductails? were they functional or more for looks? The look similar to what the nascars use..

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362549
01/02/13 12:44 AM
01/02/13 12:44 AM
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Quote:

how about the challenger and cuda ductails? were they functional or more for looks? The look similar to what the nascars use..




Using the info done by the 1969 Car Life magazine test on an 69 Camaro (similiar sedan profile to E-body), YES at speeds 65 mph and above.

With rear spoiler onl, the test showed at 65 mph about 40 lbs of force downward was added to the rear end over the no spoilers test. And added about 100 lbs of force at 115 mph over the no spoilers test. But when the rear was pushed down, it actually pushed the front of the car more up and created even more front lift.

Front and rear 69 Camaro Spoiler reduced front lift a just little over the no spoiler test. The rear downforce was a little greater than with just rear spoiler only.

Interesting thing was the front spoiler only reduced 50 lbs of front lift at 65 mph and reduced 150 lbs at 115 mph! The rear force was not effected much at all over the no f/r spoilers test









This is the interesting test on the Camaro notchback coupe design that would apply to E-bodies, 66-70 B-bodies (not Charger), 67-76 Darts, 67-69 Notchback Barracudas...




7529276-IMG_8537.JPG (98 downloads)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 01/02/13 01:05 AM.
Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362550
01/02/13 05:37 PM
01/02/13 05:37 PM
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Quote:

how about the challenger and cuda ductails? were they functional or more for looks? The look similar to what the nascars use..




Functional.

On an AAR test car one of the magazine tests claimed 125 pounds downforce at 100 mph.

I'd put my money on the Challenger T/A with the dual front spoilers for making the front-end stick.

As many times as I look at the AAR front spoilers and the mounting position, I just can't see them being any good for anything other than looking plain weird.

'71 B-body front spoilers are a little more with the program.


Mo' Farts

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Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: Grizzly] #1362551
01/02/13 07:30 PM
01/02/13 07:30 PM
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Quote:

I'd put my money on the Challenger T/A with the dual front spoilers for making the front-end stick.





Ehh, I doubt it. Compare the size of those two little chin spoilers to the ones actually used in competition and the difference is staggering. It took more than twice as much frontal area on the chin spoiler to balance the car with the smaller ducktail in place. And I doubt that situation was unique to mopar as all the manufacturers had pretty substanial front spoilers on their competition cars.

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362552
01/02/13 08:43 PM
01/02/13 08:43 PM
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I have ran my 74 challenger at bonneville in Utah with all 3 configurations.

I think only by seat of the pants that the TA spoiler provides more downforce than the gullwing and definetly more than no rear wing at all.
That said I like the 71 gull wing for looks the most.

I had a extra deck lid years ago so got the TA spoiler for it just to mix up the look of the car(74). I didn't drill my original 74 hood either.

Then bought the gull wing for my 71 but could never bring myself to drill my perfect 71 deck lid with cutouts for both spoilers, just couldn't drill the holes.

So I got a repo hood and drilled holes in it stuck it on my 74 a few years ago.

At the same time I bolted on the front spoilers on my 74. I have had the car to 120 mph for like 4-5 miles at time and there was minumun front end lift that I noticed, on the salt and the pavement.
Salt on the car in Wendover Nv at the Rainbow casino. I drive the local roads and on the salt at bonneville while my wife gambles in the casino. I gamble some and she wins us dinner at the buffays. Sound like fun?




Some of the salt was washed off before I left bonneville, just so the car didn't look so bad on the road.

This configuration has been tested at high altitudes, like at the top of Pikes Peak 14110' high!! drove it to the top twice!! Try it some time.


Last edited by Challenger 1; 01/02/13 08:54 PM.
Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: Challenger 1] #1362553
01/02/13 09:14 PM
01/02/13 09:14 PM
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What happens with rear "ducktail" spoilers (AAR, T/A, etc) is they move air pressure forward against the back glass & trunklid. The air hitting the spoiler backs up, so to speak. There's a trade-off size between lower drag (smoother airflow off the car) & actual downforce (air pressure against glass & lid).
TransAm racecars usually ran whatever factory rear spoiler they could get homologated, but as noted ran large ft spoilers, which were barely/not regulated. By '67-'68, many ran tunnels for the exhaust to get the cars lower, and most cars ran a few degrees nose-down.
Venting the air from underhood was shown decades ago to reduce front lift, as was limiting the amount of air getting through the front openings; 1/6 the area of the radiator was one figure I remember. Venting the hood wasn't done to a meaningful extent on production cars, mostly likely due to control of rain water. I've found an improvement in MPG & underhood temps even on street vehicles when I've vented the hood.

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: topside] #1362554
01/02/13 10:00 PM
01/02/13 10:00 PM
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dangina Offline OP
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Some great info here guys! thanks for posting the article Steve.
Which had the bigger rear spoiler - the cuda or challenger? were they the same height?(I had never owned a ebody)
The Amx rear spoilers look double the size of either one - I wonder how their rear spoiler stacked up...

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362555
01/03/13 01:05 AM
01/03/13 01:05 AM
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Quote:

Some great info here guys! thanks for posting the article Steve....




No problem.

I've posted references to the partical article in the Moparts New Products Forum in the thread on the Trans Am Cuda replica front spoilers RyslisPro made.

But I finally just took pictures of the whole article last night to post.

This is the complete chart that is most helpful:


Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: dangina] #1362556
01/03/13 01:28 AM
01/03/13 01:28 AM
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Quote:

...
Which had the bigger rear spoiler - the cuda or challenger? were they the same height?(I had never owned a ebody)




About the same.

Quote:

The Amx rear spoilers look double the size of either one - I wonder how their rear spoiler stacked up...




But that car has a fastback rear profile. So it generates a bunch of lift in the rear end. So it needs that big spoiler.

IHMO, the 71 AMX is redesigned with winning the Trans Am Championship first, looks secondary.

It's got some of the same ideas as the Charger 500, Daytona, and Superbird cars. The front grille is push forward and flush, like a Charger 500. Long hood like a Charger 500. The fender has huge scallops for racing tires like Daytona and Superbird reverse fender scoops.

Big high duck-bill spoiler is more '70 Z28 and Firebird Trans Am.

Thet put a cowl hood on it for best fresh with with good aero.

The hump at the back of the roof I think it do create more rear downforce.

Lot of stuff to that car.

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: autoxcuda] #1362557
01/03/13 09:12 AM
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Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: Rug_Trucker] #1362558
01/03/13 10:15 AM
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You guys ever look in the rear veiw mirror at speed? The 71 wing looks like a guitar string back there. It's doing something back there but I bet it has nothing to do with downforce, maybe it's playing a tune?

Re: were the 71-74 r"Gull" wings and "Go" wings functional? [Re: scatpacktom] #1362559
01/03/13 10:38 AM
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Quote:

You guys ever look in the rear veiw mirror at speed? The 71 wing looks like a guitar string back there. It's doing something back there but I bet it has nothing to do with downforce, maybe it's playing a tune?




Never noticed that on my car, are you using the mounting brackets underneath?







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