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Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: pittsburghracer] #1361937 12/31/12 06:09 PM 12/31/12 06:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington skrews OP mopar
skrews OP mopar Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington	I have to wonder about the Super Victor my self. It killed TQ under 4500 and I mean killed (30 or 35# campared to AirGap). I think it's a great intake in the right application ie circle track or 400+ ci drag. My little ci low comp motor can barely use it. Would like to try the AirGap with a 2" Wilson tapered spacer. In subsequent testing on my 440HP spare parts 360 the 2" Wilson was about 10HP better than the open 1" when run on the same AirGap intake. I believe the HP is legit, its just that its in a poor chassis for the engine combo. Put this in the more typical sub 3000LB car, with a good converter, trans brake, at a bit lower elevation track and it would move.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: skrews] #1361938 12/31/12 06:23 PM 12/31/12 06:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	IMO for that engine a Weiand X-Celerator would be a great intake.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: skrews] #1361939 12/31/12 06:30 PM 12/31/12 06:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal	Quote: I have to wonder about the Super Victor my self. It killed TQ under 4500 and I mean killed (30 or 35# campared to AirGap). I think it's a great intake in the right application ie circle track or 400+ ci drag. My little ci low comp motor can barely use it. Would like to try the AirGap with a 2" Wilson tapered spacer. In subsequent testing on my 440HP spare parts 360 the 2" Wilson was about 10HP better than the open 1" when run on the same AirGap intake. I believe the HP is legit, its just that its in a poor chassis for the engine combo. Put this in the more typical sub 3000LB car, with a good converter, trans brake, at a bit lower elevation track and it would move. There are alot of things that can affect mph that's for sure. When I first started running my w2 headed 360 duster it went 119mph and made right at 500hp. Once I changed the alignment up front and ran more tire psi in the rear I gained 2mph! So mph is not always an indicator but more like a guage that can be off once in a while. I'll bet the SV intake is hurting gear changes. Brian Hafliger

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: justinp61] #1361940 12/31/12 06:33 PM 12/31/12 06:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 170 renton , washington P perfmachst member
perfmachst member P Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 170 renton , washington	theres a guy with a 1972 340, cuda, FS/A, 3325#,stock intake, , carb, small valve heads, 9.0 cr, hydcam, ran 10.97 @ 120MPH. looking at charts, etc, this motor made 445 HP. according to same charts, 587 HP, @ 3200#, should run 9.97 @ 133 MPH. we have a friend with a 340 duster, full stock car, weighs 3345 with driver- 200# =3145.dyno must be very generous?????

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: perfmachst] #1361941 12/31/12 07:08 PM 12/31/12 07:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,172 PA. pittsburghracer "Little"John
pittsburghracer "Little"John Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,172 PA.	Quote: theres a guy with a 1972 340, cuda, FS/A, 3325#,stock intake, , carb, small valve heads, 9.0 cr, hydcam, ran 10.97 @ 120MPH. looking at charts, etc, this motor made 445 HP. according to same charts, 587 HP, @ 3200#, should run 9.97 @ 133 MPH. we have a friend with a 340 duster, full stock car, weighs 3345 with driver- 200# =3145.dyno must be very generous????? Aren't they all. How many times on this site alone see GREAT dyno numbers and very disappointing track numbers. 1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.42@138.27 Livin and lovin life one day at a time

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: pittsburghracer] #1361942 12/31/12 07:52 PM 12/31/12 07:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV dodgeboy11 super stock
dodgeboy11 super stock Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,025 Las Vegas, NV	Is anyone else worried about the cast eagle crankshaft at those power levels? I know it's stock stroke and stronger than a 4" arm but still, my 4" eagle broke at under 480 hp. Didn't dyno that one but the 440 in the truck now made 485 and it's faster than the 408 was. Just concerned for you, would hate to see your testing cut short because of a crap crankshaft.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: dodgeboy11] #1361943 12/31/12 10:33 PM 12/31/12 10:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington skrews OP mopar
skrews OP mopar Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington	Quote: Is anyone else worried about the cast eagle crankshaft at those power levels? I know it's stock stroke and stronger than a 4" arm but still, my 4" eagle broke at under 480 hp. Didn't dyno that one but the 440 in the truck now made 485 and it's faster than the 408 was. Just concerned for you, would hate to see your testing cut short because of a crap crankshaft. Bought the crank years ago before the Eagle cast crank reputation was well known. 4" steel crank, and some 13.7 Wiseco pistons are in the works for the season after next. 7526988-IMG_0111.JPG (49 downloads)

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: skrews] #1361944 01/01/13 10:15 AM 01/01/13 10:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 226 lino lakes,MN onebaddakota enthusiast
onebaddakota enthusiast Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 226 lino lakes,MN	My 410 magnum made 581HP@ 6100. With a race weight of 3475lbs it ran 10.50s@125 with 3.91 gears,28" tire and a 4800 stall. So I think you're leaving something on the table. Tom 10.56 at 125.6, with a 1.43 60 ft. E85, Hyd. Roller 410 magnum,full exhaust, 3500 race weight.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: dodgeboy11] #1361945 01/02/13 11:47 AM 01/02/13 11:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI patrick I Live Here
patrick I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,123 Grand Haven, MI	Quote: Is anyone else worried about the cast eagle crankshaft at those power levels? I know it's stock stroke and stronger than a 4" arm but still, my 4" eagle broke at under 480 hp. Didn't dyno that one but the 440 in the truck now made 485 and it's faster than the 408 was. Just concerned for you, would hate to see your testing cut short because of a crap crankshaft. I was thinking the same...for stock stroke, why go with a suspect chinese eagle cast crank over a stocker? 1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD 1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod SOLD!* 2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T 2017 Grand Cherokee Overland 2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: pittsburghracer] #1361946 01/02/13 12:14 PM 01/02/13 12:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,969 Chandler, AZ Duner top fuel
Duner top fuel Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,969 Chandler, AZ	Quote: How many times on this site alone see GREAT dyno numbers and very disappointing track numbers. Only the timeslips matter.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Duner] #1361947 01/02/13 01:15 PM 01/02/13 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.	I agree the vert seems to be holding that great combo back quite a bit, you need more stall/flash....so long as you don't loose too much top end efficiency in the process. The cam has a lot of lift for the .050 duration, are you running higher than a 1.6:1 rocker to get there? Your thread is also very telling about the Eddie airgap, I can see that the cross section becomes a restriction to the torque peak which in turn lowers the hp trajectory in a predicable manner....great stuff and very telling info. you can sometimes only discover this on dyno tests where you have plenty of head flow and cam (i.e., proportional to the motor size) to get there to find the bottleneck. I'd be tempted to run the Victor 340 on it to get another good side by side, the SV will help a 360 more so than a 408 I think since the SV runners are longer and the stroke of the 360 is shorter. The opposite tends to be true when the stroke is long the motor doesn't need additional runner length (for a given X-section) to make adequate mid range torque and the longer runner will then tend to be a gradual restriction above the VE/torque Peak. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Duner] #1361948 01/02/13 02:11 PM 01/02/13 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal	Quote: Only the timeslips matter. Well yes and no...if you have a certain amount of power from dyno testing, you have data! Now you take that, and then compare to the track data....yes it can be a dyno that is generous, but if you start looking at the WHY this and that you may discover problems or areas that need attention. I agree if mph is low, there's a power issue possibly but WHAT is the issue? Not enough fuel delivery, spark, what changed from the dyno??? Type of fuel, timing, jetting, spacers? Is the converter garbage allowing 500 or more rpm through the traps than should be? There should be alot of data to look through and compare with other racers to maybe find the problems if there are any. Just my observation I guess... Brian Hafliger

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Brian Hafliger] #1361949 01/02/13 02:19 PM 01/02/13 02:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,969 Chandler, AZ Duner top fuel
Duner top fuel Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,969 Chandler, AZ	Quote: Quote: Only the timeslips matter. Well yes and no...if you have a certain amount of power from dyno testing, you have data! Just my observation I guess... That's true. The dyno is very good at providing data, but sometimes it doesn't translate directly to a perfectly matching result at the track is all I meant. Especially since some dyno's are stingy and some are generous. I use the dyno to figure out what's wrong with my heap when I can't figure it out on the track. It IS VERY helpful there. My last trip to the dyno showed me that I needed to try something else that I couldn't tell from the timeslip. So yes, they are a benefit and provide data.. but I still want that timeslip!

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Duner] #1361950 01/02/13 03:52 PM 01/02/13 03:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th... G Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Guitar Jones Paddle faster! I hear banjo music! G Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 20,640 in a cattle trailer down by th...	I'm sure 590 or 600 HP is very doable from a 360. We'll see, since I've scattered the 408 I may just freshen the old 360 and go back at it. But I'm thinking a 4.86 or 5.13 gear at that weight and that short of a tire. I doubt the converter is holding it back unless it has a lot of slip on the top end. The stall speed is fine IMO. I run a 4200 in my car and it works fine. The 360 makes more torque down low than a shorter stroke 340 would. "Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind" '92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion. '74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon! 2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Guitar Jones] #1361951 01/02/13 05:24 PM 01/02/13 05:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C. Streetwize master
Streetwize master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,875 Weddington, N.C.	Just looking at your Dyno shot that long "bundle of Snakes" of headers might be too long of a primary length to be optimum for the rest of the combo....maybe Last edited by Streetwize; 01/02/13 08:57 PM. WIZE World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI In Car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Streetwize] #1361952 01/02/13 07:43 PM 01/02/13 07:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 498 El Dorado Ca 6 65signet mopar
65signet mopar 6 Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 498 El Dorado Ca	1965 Plymouth Barracuda 273 M/SA 1970 Plymouth Duster 360/904 10.60s with J heads

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: 65signet] #1361953 01/02/13 08:18 PM 01/02/13 08:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto M mshred master
mshred master M Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 3,415 Toronto	Awesome of you to share your combo and listen to the criticism on it! definitely helps guys like me learn something hearing all the different perspectives on how to cut the cake I will say though that I still think your car runs HARD for what it is, regardless of whether or not there is the opinion it leaves something on the table...Thats only 10:1 compression and 365ci in a 3400lb car going high tens!!! I love it

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Duner] #1361954 01/02/13 08:24 PM 01/02/13 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal Brian Hafliger master
Brian Hafliger master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,484 SoCal	Quote: Quote: Quote: Only the timeslips matter. Well yes and no...if you have a certain amount of power from dyno testing, you have data! Just my observation I guess... That's true. The dyno is very good at providing data, but sometimes it doesn't translate directly to a perfectly matching result at the track is all I meant. Especially since some dyno's are stingy and some are generous. I use the dyno to figure out what's wrong with my heap when I can't figure it out on the track. It IS VERY helpful there. My last trip to the dyno showed me that I needed to try something else that I couldn't tell from the timeslip. So yes, they are a benefit and provide data.. but I still want that timeslip! I concour! Brian Hafliger

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: patrick] #1361955 01/03/13 05:26 AM 01/03/13 05:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington skrews OP mopar
skrews OP mopar Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington	Quote: Quote: Is anyone else worried about the cast eagle crankshaft at those power levels? I know it's stock stroke and stronger than a 4" arm but still, my 4" eagle broke at under 480 hp. Didn't dyno that one but the 440 in the truck now made 485 and it's faster than the 408 was. Just concerned for you, would hate to see your testing cut short because of a crap crankshaft. I was thinking the same...for stock stroke, why go with a suspect chinese eagle cast crank over a stocker? At the time the Eagle crank was cheaper than having a stocker sent out for crack check, stroke equalizing, and indexing. As I said earlier this was before the Eagle cast crank reputation was well known. Would not buy a cast Eagle crank again. Thinking I might just tear this thing down and do the 4" steel crank. Don't want to ventilate the pan.

Re: 587 HP 360 [Re: Streetwize] #1361956 01/03/13 05:52 AM 01/03/13 05:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington skrews OP mopar
skrews OP mopar Joined: Jul 2012 Posts: 429 Washington	Quote: I agree the vert seems to be holding that great combo back quite a bit, you need more stall/flash....so long as you don't loose too much top end efficiency in the process. The cam has a lot of lift for the .050 duration, are you running higher than a 1.6:1 rocker to get there? Your thread is also very telling about the Eddie airgap, I can see that the cross section becomes a restriction to the torque peak which in turn lowers the hp trajectory in a predicable manner....great stuff and very telling info. you can sometimes only discover this on dyno tests where you have plenty of head flow and cam (i.e., proportional to the motor size) to get there to find the bottleneck. I'd be tempted to run the Victor 340 on it to get another good side by side, the SV will help a 360 more so than a 408 I think since the SV runners are longer and the stroke of the 360 is shorter. The opposite tends to be true when the stroke is long the motor doesn't need additional runner length (for a given X-section) to make adequate mid range torque and the longer runner will then tend to be a gradual restriction above the VE/torque Peak. 1.6 rockers intake/exhaust. I wish I had a few other intakes to try when it was on the dyno. M1, Victor, Xcelerator would all have been interesting to try. Keep us posted on the AirWolf 220 headed beast. Wish those had been around when I bought the IndyBrocks.

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