maybe al or chris would know how much would 1968 white dodge dart with a 440 ci w8 headed small block with a profight trans need to weight in these classes..i cant make an cents of these rules. thanks

3100 lbs for 440 with 15* heads. If you have a 420 or 598 intake add 25 lbs but can deduct 50 lbs if you have a 4150 carb.

You also get 50 lbs off for running a dart body style.

Dont know if the above numbers are for NMCA, but, I just took a look at the 2013 PSCA Rules, and assuming that you are running a wet sump, single carb combo, you would need to weigh just over 2700 lbs.

(I took the 10% weight hit for the heads, deleted 10% for single carb, and 10% for early body style)

FYI - If you do not have a comp eliminator caliber small block (1000 -1050 hp) in the PSCA, you will have no luck in hanging with the other guys in the class. Hate to say it, but, the only Mopar small block that could make the same type of hp, is the P5 stuff. You would have to have an insane, dry sump, sheet metal, dual carb W8, to make the big hp numbers, and than the weight breaks are added for all of the extra "stuff"

I would love to have a killer, high winding P5, but, I am just a street car guy now.......

Yes that is nmca pro stock weights.

NMCA Pro Stock is likely adopting the NA 10.5 rules. Out here in NMCA West we already run under the NA10.5 rules. When I looked into possibly going that way, SB W8 deal I was only going to get a couple hundred pounds off the current combo, which IMO is not enough to make the switch.

As Chris mentioned if you dont have at LEAST 1000 HP small block you will not likely be able to run with the faster cars. Our champion last year ran a 390" SB 2.2 at 2533lbs.

I have not looked at the newest rules to see if there are any real changes nor to figure out the weights in PSCA for a combo like that. I'm sure Mel did not address the inequity given to a couple of the combos out there at any rate. namely the SB cars and their weigths. Actually I woudl prefer Mel started pumping more of these combos to see juts how big some are. We did have someone get caught this passed year in the NMCA fudging the number. The NA10.5 guys still have not releasd the new rules for this coming year. But you can bet the bank roll it will not be freindly to anything that does not have a blue oval and a GV head. Hard to get a fair set of rules when racers are making them and of course their combos seem to get favorable treatment.

Well I looked at the PSCA weights. For a 440 W8 would need some clarification on where they would put that head weight wise. But initially loks like it could run at base weight.

2750lbs is base for a 440" SB. If you are using a wet sump, cast intake you can run at base. If you run a single four you can deduct 10% and you get another 10% for the older car, assuming it is a pre 74 car. So you can deduct 88 lbs from that and you will get 2662. So question is can you get there first off? Second is you will still need to be making 950+- HP to run up front. All of this providing there is no weight penalty for running the W8 head. As the rules are written now it looks like you can.

As for the P5 here is what I come up with

2500 base
10% for intake
10% for Drysump
25%for heads
-10% for old head
125.3 added to base
2625.3lbs total...

I cant imagine you will get away with that for long But as the current rules are written that is the answer.

As for the NA10.5 as I say they have no rules out yet for 2013. They use a measurement system on the heads last year. Distance from deck surface of head to bottom of intake port. You will be heavier under those rules. I do not know those measurements on the W8 or P5 so cant really tell you the weights. If you get me the info i can look it up under last years rules if need be.

PSCA rules are very simple and despite what many think are pretty fair across the board. Although I as well as couple of others feel the SB stuff needs to be looked at a bit in terms of weights. Saying that as we runthe saem rule set at SCSN and when some of thes east coast cars come west they seem to run much better than the PSCA cars. Then again they may just have bigger motors than they claim. They sure do run better out here at altitude at that race than they do all year long.

Well looks like the Pro Stock rules came out yesrterday. See what happens when you miss a day on the net. Now if I could only find them

thanks guys that was a great help.. just by talking about this class I think my wallet got thinner. one thing for shure is im not putting a 8.20 combo together but looking at a fast bracket small block some were in the 8s

Well let me ad that you dont need to be a front runner to come out and race. As long as you meat the rules come out and race. You never know what might happen doing this stuff and it is fun to run the races.

Well I went through the rules last night. Looks about the saem as Mel's/PSCA except fo the way they determine head wieghts. Alos looks like if I want to race there we need to ad even more weight to the car this coming year. So doubt I will be running many NMCA races again. Keep adding weight to the combo..Oh well, obvious what they are targeting as the combos that will have a performance advantage.

As for the OP W8 question. At 440 you have a base weight of 2714. If you run a cast intake single 4 you can run at that base weight as long as the bottom of your intake port is less that 1" above the heads deck surface. At 1" or above you receive a 15% weight penalty. Or 407lbs, making the total or 3121. A second carb adds 10%, a dry sump adds 5%, a sheet metal intake adds another 10%. So IF you ran a 440" W8 with a sheet metal intake, two dominators and a dry sump ad another 25%. The percentages are added to the engines cubic inches. SO a 10% penaly on a 440" motor is 44lbs. If you know the port floor measurement you can get an exact weight.

So 3121 with a cast single 4 and wet sump is the answer Would take a LOT of steam to a front runner at the weight. Pretty much where it has been we figured around 3100+- when I was considering the switch. Our minimum is about 150 more and I am over now. Hard to compete against 2700lb "Victor Glidden" pieces making 950 and 2600lb 390" SB2's making 900+.

But not a reason to stay away. We are out there swinging for it overweight and the heaviest car in the class. Bring it out and have fun with it. As I say ya never know what will happen at these races.

thanks al im just poking around not sure how much hp this motor will make between brett miller and brad @ QMP it should exceed my hp goal of 600 hp . the car is a hole another story it will get a 12 point after mats it should scale between 3000 3100 with driver win all said and done