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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#1350201
12/12/12 07:28 PM
12/12/12 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok, let me turn it around a little....
What if Koffrll, Indy, Eddie or whoever gave Us a BBM head which combined max wedge ports (standard intakes will fit ) BUT also gave us a W / B1 style valve arrangement that opened on the bore center and a more favorable for flow Valve angle?
How hard would it be? Lets assume you're gonna need B1 style pistons? Maybe less a B1 but maybe more of a Scaled-up W8? 2.30 intake valve and 380+ cfm
I was always vexed by why the aftermarket couldn't fix the 1958 valve angles. Look at all the Cleveland/Windsor/twisted wedge choices the Ford guys have. Look at a set of CHI Clevor heads some time,
Keep the shaft, center up them valves!!
Mopar answered your request except for moving the valves.
Mopar Stage VI CNC ported by Chapman flowed 385cfm with a 2.250" valve
Nobody bought those either. 
Wise has them on his 517 , I had a set , the issue was the price, most mopar owners want pro stock HP on a small block chevy budget.
Mopar dropped the ball on the stage VI , they designed it around the stock wedge head valve length , what IDIOT at MOPAR thought that was a grand idea ?
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: bigtimeauto]
#1350203
12/12/12 08:07 PM
12/12/12 08:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Looking back, a lot of us got backed into the replacement type (SR,440-1,Eddys,etc) simply because they fit some of our parts OR, were familiar. A B1 seemed out of reach at the time because it required going the whole way. New pistons, valvetrain, intake, the whole topend plus pistons plus drain lines, ETC. Forgot to mention a converter change would also probably be part of the change. Add $1200 to the changeover. Advertising made a huge difference as well, and the Indy stuff and Edelbrock stuff well promoted.
If you look at what can be done with a well worked 440-1 or 572-13 they make more sense for a 500 to 550 inch street motor because the torque peak is about 1000 rpm less on a 528 cube motor. A 440-1 will peak about 4900, B1 5900? So to my thinking the B1 is better suited to a huge(by yesterdays standards)street motor, 572 and up. Sure you can make the B1 run OK at 4500 rpm with a 500 cube motor, but the smaller port motor will pull harder there. I am still hoping someone with real world experience on a flat tappet/B1 combo would chime in to show what could be done on a smaller budget. With a 541 cube stock block, B1 heads and a big flat tappet cam, I would think that combo may have an edge over the Indy stuff within the range of the flat tappet cam. Specifically the Comp 650 lift, 290 cam. You can get by with the standard B1 rockers, the cam is cheap, and should rev to 6800 reliably.
Last edited by gregsdart; 12/12/12 08:13 PM.
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: n20mstr]
#1350206
12/12/12 08:32 PM
12/12/12 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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I hear you on the Chapmans and yes, I do have a set on the 517 low deck. 380cfm at ~.700 is great but it's the 335 @.500 and the 361 at only .600 that makes them the killer head for 500 cubes. I've done The Indy -1's and since even full CNC'ed they wouldn't be much ( if any ) 'measurable' bit better than what I already have, I think they would be too small for what I'd want to do with a 572, essentially the same power at 500 rpm lower but with more torque...when the 500 already has all I need. The 572 B1 I would think would be the next '1 step beyond 'what I have, more flow/volume for a proportional increase in cubes, obviously needing a bigger cam for the extra cubes but would still allow me to pull past 7k. The thing about strokers is once they run out of head the torque noses over at a very fast rate ( all that extra stroke/piston speed and ring drag starts to work against you) since past the torque (VE) peak the crank's rate of acceleration slows and the rings start to act like a brake. ( Also true for all 4cycle motors) That's why I always build for the widest possible torque curve, simply because it's more fun to drive. The bore/valve centerlines and wedge angles are the key to the B1, if you scale down the port Cc and flow numbers to any comparable Conventional valve placement BBM head, it would still out torque and power it by virtue of the superior cylinder filling and evacuation efficiency. the chamber/valve placement is also generally why the small block makes more power per cube than the conventional big block all else being equal. The B1 design 'evens the playing field' I think
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/12/12 08:53 PM.
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#1350210
12/12/12 09:25 PM
12/12/12 09:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,876
Weddington, N.C.
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Looks like a solid combo, curious about the wide and late LSA and ICL but lifts and dirations look good. Flow is only slightly better than my Chapmans but I'm betting the power up high is better since the chamber and valve placement is more efficient. It's a light car so I'm thinking the engine builder is trying to spread the torque and pull as much top end out of as possible. Btw, thanks to EVERYBODY for the great tech on this thread, sometimes ya just toss an idea out there and see what the tide brings in 
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/12/12 09:27 PM.
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Streetwize]
#1350217
12/13/12 01:02 AM
12/13/12 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 10,011
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I have virtually the same cam within 2 degrees. Mine is 283/296/112 in at 110 and .7750 intake lift, .680 on the exhuast. Comp spec'd my install centerline at 108 with this cam, 528 cubes and 440-1 heads. I run it at 110 though.
Last edited by gregsdart; 12/13/12 02:01 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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as soon as it hits the dyno i'll post some results!! 