Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334552
11/13/12 02:42 AM
11/13/12 02:42 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,798 Castlegar, BC, Canada
That AMC Guy
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,798
Castlegar, BC, Canada
|
Pertronix coils have internal resistance and do not need a ballast. That much I know.
Bloody Mary, Full of Vodka, Blessed art thou among cocktails....
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: That AMC Guy]
#1334553
11/13/12 05:49 AM
11/13/12 05:49 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208 Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
|
Quote:
Pertronix coils have internal resistance and do not need a ballast. That much I know.
I'm afraid this is a misunderstanding.
All coils have internal resistance, and no coils that I am aware of have ballast resistors built in, especially not the Pertronix coils.
To have a high performance ignition system, i.e. lots of energy in the spark (not talking voltage, that is different from energy), you need a BIG current to charge the coil between ignition pulses. To get a BIG current thru the primary winding of the coil the resistance needs to be very low, like 0.3 Ohm.
With 14V and 0.3 Ohm the current is 47 Amp, and the power dissipation (heat generated) is 653 Watt (10 pcs of H4 halogen bulbs), if the ignition remains in "on" and the engine is not running. With 1.5 Ohm you have 9.3 Amp and 131 Watt.
With modern electronics it's quite easy to limit the current to safe levels, to protect the coil and the electronics itself. This is why for example the Pertronix Ignitor 3 and the FlameThrower 3 coil (0.3 Ohm) dont't go up in smoke when switched on. The Ignitor 3 is limiting the current to safe levels, no ballast resistor used. Other systems not using ballast resistors do it the same way with current limiter built into the electronix.
This is why you can't take a "stupid" ignition box and hook it up a high performance/high current coil without a ballast resistor...the stupid box doesn't know how to limit the current to the high performance coil and it will burn itself and/or the coil to ashes...
That it's wasted money to buy a high performance coil, and then decrease and limit the performance of the coil with a ballast resistor...that's another story...
Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334554
11/13/12 10:33 AM
11/13/12 10:33 AM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487 Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
|
Quote:
I've got and MP distributor and a chrome box with a 45 year old stock 318 coil (not on a 318 though). I bought a Petronix flamethrower, with 1.5 ohms, resistance coil. Do I still need the ballast? Or can that coil see 12 volts all the time? I thought I've read that the ECU doesn't like 12 all the time either. I'm really clueless here.
I run a pertronix points conversion with a chrome 40,000 volt flamethrower coil.
I have had the BR by-passed for 15 yrs on the 85-318 truck with no trouble from it or the conversion unit in the dist.
on my other truck,I ditched the ecu/MP dist/BR by swaping in a points dist with the pertronix points conversion,flamethorwer coil. upluged and taped up the ecu plug and hide it behind the fender brace.(2yrs on the 440 truck so far)
I will be running a mallory duel point mech dist with a pertronix points conversion with the flamethrower coil with BR by-passed also.
I am not sure if adding the flamethrower coil to a ecu/MP elect dist system would still need the BR. I would think it is ok as it is made for a full 12 volts with the pertronix points conversions.
how long the ecu holds up like mentioned above is another ?
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334555
11/13/12 11:10 AM
11/13/12 11:10 AM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
|
The Pertronix coils are made for full 12V so the coil will be fine and with 1.5 ohms I believe the ECU can switch on/off the amount of primary current that you'll have with 1.5 ohms resistance. I'm running an FBO coil with a MP .25 ohm ballast triggered by an OEM ECU & it starts instantly/runs flawless & iirc the (measured) pri ohms of my FBO coil was .8 ohms so I'm passing more primary current on my setup than you would be plus you're running a hotter box than I am but with that being said it's always a good idea to carry spares in the glove box . EDIT I was thinking that OE points coils like your 45 year old one had 1.5 ohms & later electronic ones had .5 ohms but I may be backwards on that & the actual ohms will likely be somewhat different than the nominal listed ohm spec
Last edited by RapidRobert; 11/13/12 11:31 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334557
11/13/12 03:11 PM
11/13/12 03:11 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013 South Park, Pa.
68LAR
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
|
Just my . Mopar production has a 1 ohm resistor that I believe will work just fine with the chrome box and the flame thrower. Part number 5206436.
4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334558
11/13/12 03:43 PM
11/13/12 03:43 PM
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487 Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
|
Quote:
Well, then could I take apart the resistor and put an 8 or 10 ga wire in place of the resistor itself and reinstall it for appearance?
yes,I used a #10 strand automotive wire.
I gut the BR shell and re-use the male spade ends from it,then solder them to the #10 wire,fit it inside the BR shell and mount to firewall.
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334564
11/15/12 07:48 PM
11/15/12 07:48 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445 So Cal
Sinitro
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445
So Cal
|
Many people do not understand the task of the ballast resistor.. Certain newer coils do not require a ballast resistor, they either have it built-in or are designed to handle the higher input voltage. The purpose of the ballast resistor is to protect the coil from higher current rather than voltage as the resistor heats up its resistance increases which decreases the current to the coil.. Just my $0.02....
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Jeff_383]
#1334566
11/16/12 01:29 AM
11/16/12 01:29 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445 So Cal
Sinitro
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,445
So Cal
|
Quote:
Well then, is there even a benefit to not run the resistor to the coil?
If... The coil can handle 12V directly then delete the ballast resistor... The coil is simply a voltage step-up transformer, the higher the input voltage the higher the output.. Be sure to adjust the plug gap considering the higher voltage..
Just my $0.02...
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: Sinitro]
#1334567
11/16/12 03:11 AM
11/16/12 03:11 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
|
Not being smart but it seems a post like this comes up about once every few months and the poster gets many different answers that can really confuse them. I believe one of the Mopar mags about 6 months or so ago ran an article and said basically any Mopar electronic ign will work fine without using a ballast resister and told everyone to pretty much throw away your ballast if you have electronic ign meaning no points. At least thats the way I heard it. I know I started racing muscle cars in the early 70's and most still had points then. I also know I saw a few guys burn up the chrome MP ecu by using the wrong or no ballast or the wrong coil and I saw a few coils go bad. In fact MP had a section in their eng book on what ballast to use with the different ecu boxes they had out there in use. And to this day it still seems to confuse many. Do I understand this right as the original poster here is using a MP ecu and bought a Petronix coil to use with it ?? I am guessing you are using a MP dist ? Honestly my best advice would be to either go on the Pertronix website or call their tech line and talk to them and tell them just what you have and see what they recomend since it is their coil and they designed it. No matter how much we tell you we are not the engineers who made it and if we tell you wrong you will be the one on the side of the road with a burnt up coil or ecu. Like I said I dont mean to sound like a smart a$$ as I can also tell you what I recomend but myself I have not used that coil ever on my cars. Bottom line is the current will go thru the coil and thru the ecu to ground so the wrong current could damage either one. Your ecu will turn the primary circuit on and off but what ever current flows in the system (2 amps or 6 amps) will flow thru the coil and the ecu and can burn up either if its not right. If you use the wrong or no ballast you may burn the coil or ecu up. We can tell you to run no ballast or a .25 ballast or a 1.5 ballast. Many will work but you want the setup that will keep working and not damage any of the parts. My advise of course is carry spares to be safe and call Petronix and get their advise. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 11/16/12 03:13 AM.
|
|
|
Re: ballast resistor question?
[Re: 383man]
#1334568
11/17/12 11:42 AM
11/17/12 11:42 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 166 MINNESOTA
BRONZEBEE
member
|
member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 166
MINNESOTA
|
That resistor will save your ignition box from melting the epoxy from the back side of it,i know this for a fact!!This car was running and driving for years until.... Had a stumble above 5500 rpm removed ballast, stumble gone problem fixed. Week later cruze night car quit,open hood black ooooz running down the fire wall. Had a dizzy problem causing the stumble.Replaced the dizzy and the box,installed a new ballast. Run the ballast resistor,it is there for a reason
|
|
|
|
|