|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: W5DART66]
#1333082
11/11/12 01:35 PM
11/11/12 01:35 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness  and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
 A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mabey it is just because we are broke from buying the car in the first place we just don't have any money left to blow 
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
Mabey we should ask someone to build us a chinese 68 dodge dart so we can all have a cheap car to start with, then we could spend money on motors 
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333083
11/11/12 01:39 PM
11/11/12 01:39 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Aftermarket GM blocks and such are cheaper than BBM stuff, sure, that's economy of scale, but there are guys spending $$$ out there, just not Mopar guys. My local engine builder has become something of a Ford FE guy, much to his unhappiness and the FE guys are spending, as much, if not more than, BBM guys, to have less power.
Predator heads cost in line with similar GM products, Big Chief/Duke/Victor, they're all about $3-3.5K for bare heads, the C460 are $2K. You want 450-500cfm, you need to spend the money. Don't know where B-1TS's fit in there, probably similar to the BigDukes, both are Brodix products. I don't know why more people aren't building off the B-1 heads, seems like a good middle ground. Sure, you can't run factory crap or Chine rockers, so freaking what, no serious GM/Ford guys run factory/Chine either.
Jesel/T&D stuff costs the same AFAIK. Hydraulic lifters ain't for racing, so not relevant IMO. All the serious GM/Ford guys are running Mopar lifters or sometimes going to 1.00" lifters, so no cheaper there.
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money. S/F....Ken M
A lot of Mopar guys just seem to be unwilling to spend money.
This is the major problem^^^^^^^^^^^^
Mabey it is just because we are broke from buying the car in the first place we just don't have any money left to blow
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
Mabey we should ask someone to build us a chinese 68 dodge dart so we can all have a cheap car to start with, then we could spend money on motors
LOL  That last line had me laughing real damn hard Dave ...good idea! 
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333085
11/11/12 01:48 PM
11/11/12 01:48 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
|
Quote:
I am building a 90 dakota as it was the cheapest lightest ride I could find and it has a 5 speed. I painted it with Alis Chalmers $37 gallon tractor paint so I should have a few bucks left for a cool engine but the pick up truck still is hard to hook up.
No they aren't. Caltracs and mono leafs with good shocks. Just like every other leaf spring vehicle.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1333086
11/11/12 01:54 PM
11/11/12 01:54 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Leon441]
#1333087
11/11/12 02:02 PM
11/11/12 02:02 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 395
campbell river B.C
mopartoby
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 395
campbell river B.C
|
Quote:
Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Devilbrad]
#1333088
11/11/12 02:19 PM
11/11/12 02:19 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
DakFink
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
Fox Bodies 1979-1993 were about 2800-3300lbs depending on trim from the factory. Strip them out from all the extras (A/c, PowerSteering, Heat, Sound deadener, etc) and they are easily 2400-2800lbs with interior still in it. Strip it out totally for Race Duty and you can drop another 100-150lbs. And they come from the factory with a suspension as close as you can get to a 4-link in a factory car.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: DakFink]
#1333089
11/11/12 02:24 PM
11/11/12 02:24 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
Devilbrad
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,489
Pacifica, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The low budget racer and street guys are where it really seems to be limited compared to GM/Ford. IMO, it's just limited market, nothing like the 5.0/350 Camaro/Firechicken/Mustang for the HS/college kids.
I disagree. The 92-96 V8 Magnum powered Dakotas weigh the same and can be just as fast. You can pick them up all day long on Craigslist for under 2k.
Even with the V6 my truck is #500 heavier than a fox body
My 96 weighed 3450lbs in full street trim. No way the fox bodies are under 3000lbs. Maybe the early early ones, but a later Cobra is within a hundred pounds of my truck.
Fox Bodies 1979-1993 were about 2800-3300lbs depending on trim from the factory. Strip them out from all the extras (A/c, PowerSteering, Heat, Sound deadener, etc) and they are easily 2400-2800lbs with interior still in it. Strip it out totally for Race Duty and you can drop another 100-150lbs. And they come from the factory with a suspension as close as you can get to a 4-link in a factory car.
I can strip a Dakota out and lose a ton of weight also, but most stock suspension classes have a weight minimum over 3000lbs. I do agree the Mustang suspension is far superior.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Devilbrad]
#1333090
11/11/12 02:55 PM
11/11/12 02:55 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
pinkduster
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,653
Near Reading PA USA
|
Quote:
Josh, since I know where you are coming from with this....SB's need more HEAD OPTIONS!
Yeah, I'd like to be able to get small block aluminum heads that look like a stock head. You know, something like the 440 source stealth heads, but for small blocks.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: thedriver]
#1333092
11/12/12 12:05 AM
11/12/12 12:05 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
imfixinmopars426
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,041
michigan woods
|
Quote:
My boy is almost 9. I'm starting to look for a project car already. Something cheap, solid, carb powered.
Would lOve a Mopar for him, but that would mean a car that is nearly 50 years old by the time he's driving.
I keep looking at early 80s Malibu coupes. No value, great platform, huge aftermarket, comfy, it's a real usable car.
Same can be said about the fox body, tho that is less dd friendly when you get 3ft of snow.
What Mopar is missing the most is they didn't build anything for over 20 years that was worth a damn.
 ....not everyone likes the sound of a 2.2 at 8500 rpm.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: mopartoby]
#1333093
11/12/12 01:47 AM
11/12/12 01:47 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
Winchester 73
member
|
member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 168
Washington State, USA
|
Quote:
Quote:
Bought a used W2 engine years ago. It blew to smithereens in my shop. Fixed the heads and bolted them on another shortblock. Ran that baby for years and beat the He!! out of the Fords and Chevies running the same rules. I had a few thousand in the engine and the MOPAR crowd said I was made of money and that is why I won. BS
Later wanted something to run KOS. Bought a set of Arringtons. $3,500. Guy builds an engine for me and it blows up. Arrington fixes the heads and the engine. $8,000 to repair, outrageous. Next time out it blew holes in the pistons he cut too thin. Got all the bugs out and Arrington sells another set of these heads to a guy up the road for $2,000. I ran this little engine for years and won a lot of races. After Arrington wiped my checking account clean I learned to do my own work. And yes, Arrington taught me a lot I did not know. Most Mopar guys thought I had some kind of UNOBTAINIUM stuff. No, it was just leftover truck stuff that could have built an engine fairly cheap considering the power.
Then called Patterson to buy a set of W8's I saw on the internet. Talked to Allen about the build and he talked me into another set of heads. They cost me less than any set of Allumin Indy's at the time. I got extremely lucky on the valvetrain cost and had a complete engine that would stomp a mudhole in about any thing on the planet and it was cheap. Mopar guys made their excuses and even ran to the Chevy and Ford crowd making up tales as to why my stuff was so fast. Patterson could not hold people at gunpoint to buy these heads. When they were all bought up everybody wanted a set and was willing to pay whatever.
Just bought a little P7R5 combo. Less than half what a competive chevie or Ford cost. I have to do a little work and put it together but, I bet it will run well too.
You just have to open your eyes. The Mopar crowd does not have a hard core guy on every street. So you have to think for yourself. Talk to people across the nation. And figure this stuff out. If you are not able to do this maybe you need to race the less challenging makes. I race a Small Block mopar for some very good reasons. Tall decks, Raised cams, and bore spacing. I don't have to run some one off block to get this. I can appreciate the Mopar design. Not sure what is in it for the BB crowd cause I know a lot less about them. But, I know a hardcore BB guy who traveled 500 miles to buy a 99 HEMI and took it back because the valve guide had a nick on the bottom of it. A $100K engine for under $20K but that little nick was a deal breaker. This is your typical MOPAR guy. Wants something for nothing and aint willing to work for crap.
Leon
i can add a pondering to this-alot of these fifty different heads for ford and chevy are going to be obsolete becose of the ls stuff.i dont think companies are selling the old stuff anymore.the ls stuff is so good what the heck can you sell to someone?i think these days our share of the market is pretty good.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: bobs66440]
#1333095
11/12/12 03:18 AM
11/12/12 03:18 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 105
ScatPackNick
member
|
member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 105
|
Quote:
Affordability. That's the biggest issue. We can make the same HP numbers as the Chevy guys. It just costs twice as much. And the parts are insane.
+1 couldnt have said it better myself
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1333096
11/12/12 04:28 AM
11/12/12 04:28 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 490
IL
|
Quote:
we do however have some thing chevy does not have,a V10.i keep seeing the magnum v10s show up in wrecking yards(gas prices?)
i need an intake,and dist-ill make headers for that badboy!
What are you gonna put it in? That's a huge issue, outside of trucks, Dodge has jack squat to put a V8/V10 in. The diaper wipers have all the 60's/early 70's "classics" tied up with factory original dust competitions and God forbid you cut up something. The mid-late 70's stuff is mostly ugly garbage that kids don't want. What rear wheel drive cars did Mopar make in the 80's and 90's? The Viper? Too much $$$, still. The (Mitsu) Stealth? Good turbo car, fit a V8 in there? In ten years the new hemi stuff might be cheap enough, but that's ten years down the pipe(and we'll be looking for the "juice" like Mad Max by then). And they still don't have squat for manual tranny(ie "fun") stuff that's cheap. The 80's and 90's were a key point in time that got missed. Stuff that was cheap and V8, before safety garbage turned every vehicle into a 4000lb tank on wheels or EPA garbage turned it into a gas sipping wimp made out of recycled beer cans. S/F.....Ken M
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1333097
11/12/12 07:22 AM
11/12/12 07:22 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,139
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,139
Melbourne , Australia
|
From a business standpoint, the holes I see in the market are:
1/ Wider bore spaced block for BB Mopar and head to go with it. This is probably the biggest limitation for a BB Mopar making some serious power.
2/ Gen III Hemi parts, this is an expanding market waiting to be tapped into. Once the fear of the unknown has gone they will take a much larger market share.
3/ A cylinder head of similar specs to a W5
4/ A customer base that doesn't whinge and moan that everything is so expensive. The market share for Mopar is much, much smaller that GM, and to a lesser extent Ford. Buick and Oldsmobile guys don't complain, they're happy to get what comes out.
5/ An aftermarket Torqueflite case that has a removable SFI bell housing like the Powerglide and TH400. Make it compatable with a Pro Flite.
In many cases, most of the parts we curretly have have been developed for racing or because a small operator has wanted to do it for themselves. Mopar parts aren't going to turn anyone into a millionaire!
Alan Jones
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: joshking440]
#1333099
11/12/12 08:36 AM
11/12/12 08:36 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
|
Quote:
What are some of the industry items that you think we are lacking?
Bolt-in OVERDRIVE transmissions for bigblocks.
With ever rising fuel-costs, a beefed-up A500 with a welded BigBlock-bellhousing would be nice IMO.
|
|
|
Re: What are we missing as Mopar guys
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1333100
11/12/12 02:02 PM
11/12/12 02:02 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
Diablo
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,106
Quebec, Canada
|
Anyone who is talking about not having bigger Borespace mopar stuff just hasn't looked at what Goodwin Performance has been doing for the last 5-10 years! Them and Kaase kept the 5 inch stuff alive and now Goodwin has their own 5 inch to 5.3inch stuff available. If your serious and have the $$$ to play then look them up and enjoy! Goodwin performance http://goodwincompetition.com/Phone: 920-685-3000 Mention Doug Cote sent you their way:)
|
|
|
|
|
.JPG){kind=link}