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727 filter extension for deep pan
#132924
10/06/08 01:24 PM
10/06/08 01:24 PM
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I have a cast B&M pan that Ive had for years. Theres an extension piece that moves the filter down away from the valve body and puts it near the bottom of the pan. My problem in the extension has two fluid tubes running thru it. one tube goes up against the suction port on the valve body but the other tube just kinda butts up against the valve body. I believe that was for earlier transmisions and isnt used in newer ones. when you look at a valve body, its not flat to allow a good sealing surface- it has little channels and countersunk sections all over it. this second tube lines up so it doesnt sit flush or more importantly SEAL against the valve body/ theres also a groove in the VB that runs over to that area where the tube is as well. so the result could be that Im sucking from that other tube instead of up thru the filter. The free flow brass filter I got from Coan also has 2 holes in it instead of just one so if it does suck from that other tube, the fluid would go thru the hole int the enter of the filter and into the VB through the other hole/tube (ie bypass the filter). So I ordered a new extension from Mancini. Its PN MRE 739 and a new filter with just 1 hole in it. heres the space: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/chucker54_2018_153245357Just figured I'd post what I found and maybe give someone a headsup. My transmission was like this for a while now but I bet that the fluid level in the pan was high enough that I would not be sucking air even as it was
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132928
10/06/08 04:02 PM
10/06/08 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Is that mancini piece the same thickness as your B+M piece ?
I have a couple from A+A , it looks like the one in the pic except it has a couple of hogged out areas to reduce weight , made it a pain to trim as I had to take material off both sides and then put the oring groove back .
you could just modifiy the one you have to make it sit flat and get a gasket
im not sure how thick it is but the picture makes it look about the same. I'll find out when it gets here I guess. how thick are yours (I can check mine when I gtet home tonight)?
I was thinking that all I really needed was a gasket that closed the 2nd hole in the adapter but I figured I just buy the right piece and be done with it (I hope this one is the right piece). for all I know, Id use the wrong gasket material which would disintergrate and clog the VB or leak.
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
#132929
10/06/08 04:17 PM
10/06/08 04:17 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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The filter extensions that don't have a built in O ring should have a gasket between the valve body and the extension; without a gasket it's unlikely that air could be sucked in if the fluid level is correct.
The unused rear pump port in the extension has no effect when used on a later valve body.
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#132930
10/06/08 04:31 PM
10/06/08 04:31 PM
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Quote:
The filter extensions that don't have a built in O ring should have a gasket between the valve body and the extension; without a gasket it's unlikely that air could be sucked in if the fluid level is correct.
The unused rear pump port in the extension has no effect when used on a later valve body.
my extension had the gasket but the gasket had 2 holes in it matching the two tubes in the extension. so it could still allowed fo fluid to enter fron that other tube because it didnt seal the extention to the VB completely (because of the raised grid in the VB would hold the extensions off a slight little bit).
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
#132931
10/06/08 04:44 PM
10/06/08 04:44 PM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
Quote:
The filter extensions that don't have a built in O ring should have a gasket between the valve body and the extension; without a gasket it's unlikely that air could be sucked in if the fluid level is correct.
The unused rear pump port in the extension has no effect when used on a later valve body.
my extension had the gasket but the gasket had 2 holes in it matching the two tubes in the extension. so it could still allowed fo fluid to enter fron that other tube because it didnt seal the extention to the VB completely (because of the raised grid in the VB would hold the extensions off a slight little bit).
there is nothing on your VB that draws fluid thru that other passage so it's NOT doing anything .
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132932
10/06/08 05:31 PM
10/06/08 05:31 PM
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because there is a slight space between the valve body and the extension (the height of the ribs on the VB) that isnt sealed (the ribs hild the extension up off the VB by about 1/16 to 1/8"), its could suck fluis in through that area, sown the second tube in the extension into the middle of the filter and then up the right tube in the extension into the VB.
if the gasket that was on there did not have the hole for the second tub, then that 2nd tube would be blocked by the gasket. as it is now, there is an opening however slight- and i dont like it
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: AndyF]
#132934
10/06/08 05:37 PM
10/06/08 05:37 PM
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on the bottom of the VB where the hole for the filter is, theres a flat boss that would seal up to the filter. if youre familiar with valve bodies, you recognize that the rest of it has this slightly raised grid across the face of it. that second hole in the extension catches the edge of some of those ribs. theres also a deep squiggly grove in the VB thats runs about 5" right up to that area where the second hole is. you really have to see it to understand it.
If the exyension I have isnt deep enough, i might just try to use a gasket to block it off
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
#132935
10/06/08 07:31 PM
10/06/08 07:31 PM
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Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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All of the ribs in the grid that surround the inlet boss are at the same level as the boss. Lay a straight edge across the casting and there shouldn't be any more than a few thousandths difference anywhere across the entire surface including the inlet for the rear pump.
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#132936
10/06/08 09:56 PM
10/06/08 09:56 PM
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that is correct and the cause of my concern. because those ribs are the same height as the boss around the 1st hole, those ribs make the 2nd hole in the filter extension sits above the recessed area next to the rib. and that recessed area is where the leak would occur and is also where that squiggly groove leads to. theres nothing to block that second hole and the recessed area opens up to the squiggly groove
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
#132937
10/07/08 09:53 AM
10/07/08 09:53 AM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
that is correct and the cause of my concern. because those ribs are the same height as the boss around the 1st hole, those ribs make the 2nd hole in the filter extension sits above the recessed area next to the rib. and that recessed area is where the leak would occur and is also where that squiggly groove leads to. theres nothing to block that second hole and the recessed area opens up to the squiggly groove
The squiggly groove is not a suction point so whats it going to do that concerns you so much ???
It doesn't really matter anyway since to already ordered a new one correct ?
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132938
10/07/08 10:25 AM
10/07/08 10:25 AM
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nmo, its not a suction port. that is true.
what worried me (and this was a small concern- not major) what that I had a filter sitting near the bottom of the pan but the vb could suck unfiltered fluid in thru that small opening at the top bypassing the filter (fluid would go in thru the filter thru the 2nd hole and then into the VB thru the correct hole).
I rebuilt the trans 2 months ago but after a couple hundred miles I had a problem when I shifted down from 2nd to 1st where I did not have engine braking where I once had it. I bought a new valve body (turbo action manual/auto) to replace the old one and found small amounts of fuzzy material on the filter after the fresh rebuild (took pan off last weekend). i may be thinking too much that maybe some of that fuzz may have gotten into the VB causing the problem I am seeing (its my only explanation at this point)
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
#132939
10/07/08 10:32 AM
10/07/08 10:32 AM
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JohnRR
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Quote:
nmo, its not a suction port. that is true.
what worried me (and this was a small concern- not major) what that I had a filter sitting near the bottom of the pan but the vb could suck unfiltered fluid in thru that small opening at the top bypassing the filter (fluid would go in thru the filter thru the 2nd hole and then into the VB thru the correct hole).
I rebuilt the trans 2 months ago but after a couple hundred miles I had a problem when I shifted down from 2nd to 1st where I did not have engine braking where I once had it. I bought a new valve body (turbo action manual/auto) to replace the old one and found small amounts of fuzzy material on the filter after the fresh rebuild (took pan off last weekend). i may be thinking too much that maybe some of that fuzz may have gotten into the VB causing the problem I am seeing (its my only explanation at this point)
Have you taken the trans apart and checked the over running clutch (sprag) since you did that ???
You are worrying about a NON issue in my opinion as far as that spacer goes . 
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132940
10/07/08 10:45 AM
10/07/08 10:45 AM
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I put in a new sprag (bolt in from coan) when I built the trans 2 months ago but I havent looked at it since. why would it have gone out? can that cause the problem I described?
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132942
10/07/08 12:18 PM
10/07/08 12:18 PM
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no downshifting from 2nd to 1st while moving caused the problem
it was just the bolt in.
Why would downshifting from 2nd to 1st while moving cause a problem. I thought thats what transmissions were meant to do- shift up or shift down. If I cant drop it into low while moving, ive just lost a lot of street ability. Ive done that to boogie out while cruising around as well as occasionally engine brake to build up vacuum to stop.
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Re: 727 filter extension for deep pan
[Re: JohnRR]
#132944
10/08/08 01:39 PM
10/08/08 01:39 PM
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Posts: 25,786
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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If the rear band doesn't apply when downshifting to 1st it won't hurt the sprag but throttling back up hard will.
Back to the original subject, as long as the area around the front pump suction port seals against the extension it doesn't matter if the rest of the extension mates perfectly against the valve body. You're worrying about nothing.
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