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Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: Challenger 1] #1325807
10/25/12 11:04 PM
10/25/12 11:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
master
Dunnuck Racing  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Okay,thanks. I thought maybe I was missing some other info I should know about.
Keith

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: YO7_A66] #1325808
10/25/12 11:25 PM
10/25/12 11:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
There is no real reason to index(except to see what it does for your motor ) the spark plugs in most stock type SB Mopars, the plugs are almost up in the center of the combustion chamber(like a Hemi )so the ground electrode is not in danger of hitting the piston, like it can in BB and SB Chevy and Fords with dome pistons I use to do that in my 426 M.W. NHRA stocker with the high compression pistons(13.5 to1 comp. ratio). I would try to point the gap opening at the intake valve, it is a lot of work and really no measurable gains to be seen


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: Cab_Burge] #1325809
10/26/12 11:10 AM
10/26/12 11:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,387
Pikes Peak Country
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TC@HP2 Offline
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Pikes Peak Country
Quote:

There is no real reason to index(except to see what it does for your motor ) the spark plugs in most stock type SB Mopars, the plugs are almost up in the center of the combustion chamber(like a Hemi )so the ground electrode is not in danger of hitting the piston, like it can in BB and SB Chevy and Fords with dome pistons I use to do that in my 426 M.W. NHRA stocker with the high compression pistons(13.5 to1 comp. ratio). I would try to point the gap opening at the intake valve, it is a lot of work and really no measurable gains to be seen




Ditto. I saw no appreciable difference in my 400 horse bracket car. Heck, weather and the nut behind the wheel were bigger factors than plug position.

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: TC@HP2] #1325810
10/26/12 04:57 PM
10/26/12 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
I have never wasted my time even trying it as to me on my street car it would be a total waste of my time. I dont think I would see any performance gain and even if it did gain a half a tenth (which I dont believe it would see any gain) I am not out to set a record so why waste your time on it. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 10/26/12 04:57 PM.
Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: YO7_A66] #1325811
10/27/12 06:49 AM
10/27/12 06:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
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USA
I have tried indexing several types of spark plugs on a 1995 5.9L V8.

My goal was to see if Indexing would
Reduce Pinging In cylinders 7 and 8
Or
Improve idle quality
Or
Improve fuel economy.

I did not find that i could measure any lasting benefits,
but I did eventually discover that
merely loosening the sparkplugs
appears to break off carbon deposits around the plug in the combustion chamber,
which reduces pinging for a short time.

Moral of the story:
When about to compare old already installed spark plugs to new ones
always loosen the old plugs a few turns and then retighten
and go for a test drive
before installing the new plugs.

I also tried the Bosch+4 spark plugs
and after finding no advantage
tried "Indexing" this design by cutting off the ground post the ended up facing the center of the exhaust valve and leaving the other three ground posts...making them into indexed Bosch+3 so to speak. There was no performance improvement with this either,
but I did discover that the ground post that faced the hot exhaust valve did pit and wear noticeably faster than the other three ground posts.
I think this was due to the temperature of the metal when higher being "eaten away" faster when also subject to electrical sparking.
(this is kind of like Electrical Discharge Maching)

Moral of the story:
Maybe sparkplugs indexed with their ground posts away from the hot exhaust valve will hold a desired gap size longer.

This might also mean that you could gap the plugs larger to begin with,
since it is when the gap grows too large with wear
that missfires begin at high rpm and high pressures.

I originally tried indexing with copper Jacobs Ignition washers but found they allowed the plugs to get loose within a few hundred miles.

I found that if you buy 14 plugs you usually find 8 that will index "naturally"

Placing a mark down the side of your socket
and placing the spark plug into the socket lined up with the ground post next to the mark
works well and is better than
marking all the center ceramics on the plugs.

I still index plugs thinking that it might help a little.

I believe that big gaps seem to help a little too.

I believe that automakers specify gaps that are less than optimal to allow for wear that will grow them to optimal gap size.. Then eventually too big.

I believe part of the "Breaking In" effect on new engines
is growing spark plug gap size,
Along with increasing compression ratio from growing carbon deposits,
And wearing bore tolerances in hydraulic lifters becoming more Rhoads Lifter-like.

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: 360view] #1325812
10/27/12 08:08 AM
10/27/12 08:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
Truck Nut
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Posts: 12,291
Kent, Wa
EDIT FROM MOROSO:
""If you have a tapered seat plug then you need to put the crush washer on
last so that it seats and seals correctly in the head. If it is a flat seat
application then the order in which the washers go on is not as important.""


UMMM When did tapered seat plugs start useing seating washers??


I am truckless..
Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: 340SHORTY] #1325813
10/27/12 08:58 AM
10/27/12 08:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
Challenger 1  Offline
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

EDIT FROM MOROSO:
""If you have a tapered seat plug then you need to put the crush washer on
last so that it seats and seals correctly in the head. If it is a flat seat
application then the order in which the washers go on is not as important.""


UMMM When did tapered seat plugs start useing seating washers??




They make them and I have used therm, tapered washers.

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: Challenger 1] #1325814
10/27/12 09:18 AM
10/27/12 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Indiana
When I first started searching the web for indexing spark plugs, I only found a few "how to" articles and only a few vague threads on the process.
Now when people search the web they will find a thread with actual hands-on opinions and experience.
Thank you all for your replies!!


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: YO7_A66] #1325815
10/27/12 07:03 PM
10/27/12 07:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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mikemee1331 Offline
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bethlehem pa
Quote:

When I first started searching the web for indexing spark plugs, I only found a few "how to" articles and only a few vague threads on the process.
Now when people search the web they will find a thread with actual hands-on opinions and experience.
Thank you all for your replies!!


sweet!! we're all famous now!

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: 360view] #1325816
10/27/12 09:55 PM
10/27/12 09:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
Moparts resident spammer
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USA
I wonder if the pressure graphs from two of these

http://www.optrand.com/fliers/psiplug_%20060201.pdf

Indexed 180 degrees apart
in similar cylinders
could determine if indexing
speeds up combustion.

After a first run
the two spark plugs could be swapped
and a run repeated.

Dual plug Hemis
Seem like they might offer
further test possibilities
but i cant think of how to best do that yet.

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: 360view] #1325817
10/28/12 02:38 AM
10/28/12 02:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 653
montana
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pjc360 Offline
mopar
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montana
Sorry i didnt post on this topic sooner, I decided to index the plugs on my 360 magnum, i bought 20 brand new autolite 3923 plugs and tried every one untill i got one that lined up in between the 10 a clock and 2 o clock position on my engine.
I am not 100 percent sure, but i think it did help smooth out my idle even more and i think it helped with throttle response. Even if you dont feel any gains i think it is still worth it to index plugs because that way you know you are getting the best possible burn within the cylinder... thats just how i look at it. I didnt want to screw around with those washers and i wasnt too concerned about the plug being indexed perfectly... like i said i just made sure they landed in the 10 to 2 o clock position on my heads and called it good.

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: 360view] #1325818
10/29/12 07:58 AM
10/29/12 07:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
3
360view Offline
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Lets say you had:

A Briggs Stratten overhead valve engined single cylinder 3000 watt generator that runs at a steady 3600 rpm

Two 1500 watt electric heaters to create a load

Two Kil-A-Watt true electrical power meters able to measure up to 1750 watts and accumulated kilowatt-hrs

http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU

How would you run an experiment with this generator like a mini dyno laboratory
With the single spark plug indexed different positions
To see if indexing
makes the slightest difference?

What type/brand of sparkplug?

Should the recomended gap be used
or something bigger or smaller?

Would the effect of indexing be seen more
With a tiny gap?

My first thought is to measure fuel efficiency,
but would measuring detonation resistance be better?
Faster combustion is supposed to improve detonation resistance at the same octane.

87 AKI octane gasoline
could be diluted with diesel fuel
to find a lower octane blend at which the engine would begin to ping at full load,
kinda like what they do with pure Heptane and Octane liquid blends at a State Gasoline lab with the special CFR engine.

What thinks you?

Re: Indexing Spark Plugs [Re: pjc360] #1325819
10/29/12 09:44 AM
10/29/12 09:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Indiana
Thank you all again for your replies. It appears that indexing the plugs have a minimum (at idle) to no advantage at all on a street car.
But, I needed to regap my plugs (per MSD: existing .035" gap to .045" gap) anyway and I wanted to see what my plugs were set at currently without indexing. Once I pulled all of the plugs, I found two plugs that had the gap pointed at 5:00 and at 7:00 and the plugs showed it with darker color on the back of the ground strap. I found four plugs that were close to being correct and they were at 10:00 & 2:00. The other two plugs showed the gap at 3:00.
So I decided to go through what allot of you have already gone through and I bought the Moroso indexing kit #71910 (flat washers). It did take some time, but the weather was cold and I was listening to a game in the garage, so I had the time.
When I was done, I had all of the plug gaps facing between 10:00 and 12:00. I had one plug that I did not use the indexing washers and I left it alone since the gap was already facing 10:00. I had one plug that required two of the indexing washers (2 are ok per Moroso if req'd.) and it ended up between 11:00 & 12:00. All of the rest fell into the 10/12 range with one washer each.
I have no expectations but now I know that my plug gap is correct per MSD and that my plugs are all in the best orientation (between 10:00 & 2:00) that I could achieve.

Thank you again for your replies.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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