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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: wedgeheaded]
#1320525
10/15/12 01:20 AM
10/15/12 01:20 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
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According to the HAMB board (Jalopy Journal) a traditional car is something that resembles cars that were built before 1965, using parts available in or before 1965. To their viewpoint, everything back in the old days were painted, perfect cars.
They are loosing up to accepting cars a little less then perfect, and to cars using newer drive trains and suspension, as long as its not wide out in the open and you don't brag about it. Independent suspension with no fenders is a no-no.
According to the HAMB, rat rods are cobbled, unsafe, piles of junk, thrown together to provoke shock to the average citizen. The words "rat rod" will close threads or delete entries on the HAMB board.
Rat Rods have a very wide range of vehicles that fall under the banner. Some are indeed thrown together, unsafe junk, I wouldn't ride around the block in. Some are Art or wild show cars that don't represent any existing car. Some are well built cars with a lot of design and engineering, but are or show a lot of modern parts and components, with little or no concern about the condition or even the existence of paint. Some are newer cars that have been hacked up or cobbled together.
What I find interesting is how many "Rat Rod" sites are distancing themselves from the unsafe junk, shock rods, and the wild non-car contraptions that fall under the Rat Rad banner. Many sites are now setting model year dates for their rat rods. They seem to be moving towards the HAMB, even though they show so much dislike towards the HAMB.
In my opinion, a Traditional car is something that resembles a 65 or older model year car or truck that has been updated for performance and/or safety improvements using parts or components readily available to the builder. Safety and function are big necessities for me.
I like the HAMB, there is huge amounts of information available there as well as a huge accurate tech section. I get along fine as long as I respect the rules they have there. I don't talk about rat rods, and I'm not going to make a build thread on my 48 Plymouth coupe mounted a Dakota chassis. I can post pictures of my coupe, because it looks like a 48 Plymouth race car, so life is good. Gene
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: poorboy]
#1320526
10/15/12 08:30 AM
10/15/12 08:30 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,581
Friendly, WV
wedgeheaded
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,581
Friendly, WV
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Quote:
According to the HAMB board (Jalopy Journal) a traditional car is something that resembles cars that were built before 1965, using parts available in or before 1965. To their viewpoint, everything back in the old days were painted, perfect cars.
They are loosing up to accepting cars a little less then perfect, and to cars using newer drive trains and suspension, as long as its not wide out in the open and you don't brag about it. Independent suspension with no fenders is a no-no.
According to the HAMB, rat rods are cobbled, unsafe, piles of junk, thrown together to provoke shock to the average citizen. The words "rat rod" will close threads or delete entries on the HAMB board.
Rat Rods have a very wide range of vehicles that fall under the banner. Some are indeed thrown together, unsafe junk, I wouldn't ride around the block in. Some are Art or wild show cars that don't represent any existing car. Some are well built cars with a lot of design and engineering, but are or show a lot of modern parts and components, with little or no concern about the condition or even the existence of paint. Some are newer cars that have been hacked up or cobbled together.
What I find interesting is how many "Rat Rod" sites are distancing themselves from the unsafe junk, shock rods, and the wild non-car contraptions that fall under the Rat Rad banner. Many sites are now setting model year dates for their rat rods. They seem to be moving towards the HAMB, even though they show so much dislike towards the HAMB.
In my opinion, a Traditional car is something that resembles a 65 or older model year car or truck that has been updated for performance and/or safety improvements using parts or components readily available to the builder. Safety and function are big necessities for me.
I like the HAMB, there is huge amounts of information available there as well as a huge accurate tech section. I get along fine as long as I respect the rules they have there. I don't talk about rat rods, and I'm not going to make a build thread on my 48 Plymouth coupe mounted a Dakota chassis. I can post pictures of my coupe, because it looks like a 48 Plymouth race car, so life is good. Gene
I've tried to research it so as not to step on toes at the H.A.M.B. but I didn't do well. I appreciate the "traditional" hot rod too. But I think they,ve lost sight of the goal of the original hot rodders. They wanted to go fast on a tight budget. Kinda the theme of most everybody still hot rodding today. I respect that they want to keep it "traditional" too. I just was unclear what they expected. Reguarding traditional, they say, "if you don't know what that means, you shouldn't be here" I guess I'm just not a purist, I like what I like. And I like about anything with wheels. 
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: wedgeheaded]
#1320527
10/15/12 05:08 PM
10/15/12 05:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,786
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,786
Rio Linda, CA
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"Rat Rod" is like "Muscle Car"...no agreement on what constitutes either.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1320528
10/15/12 05:55 PM
10/15/12 05:55 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Poorboy covered it very well. As for getting upset about your thread getting shut down, well they have had someone new ask that question at least once every 2 months. Gets kind of old after many years. They are tough on new members, but even that has mellowed over the years. Think of the HAMB (and any forum) as a big garage with a bunch of guys that have been hanging out for years. If you walk in and shout "I got a bitchin' Camaro that's got 700HP and gets 20 MPG!" you will get ignored or worse. If you walk in, wander around and listen, learning what the group is about and what they are talking about, then ask intelligent on-topic questions or share something new, you will fit in. There is a lot of great info there even if you and your car don't fit the focus of the site. You can still learn welding, parts swapping, history and what the difference is if you lurk and not post. BTW, I'm SO happy they finally did a sticky on titles. That was getting really annoying. If you type "Rat Rod Definition" into Google, there are 99,000 results. Just like the term "Hot Rod" the meaning is different to different people and it changes over time. It actually started in an article in the early nineties about an LA club of traditional guys. The term grew and morphed from a simple name into an often derisive label. And finally, if you prefer the non-traditional, bare bones, exaggerated stance and crudely accessorized rides, try http://www.killbillet.com/.They have a lot of members who also don't like HAMB.
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: 65rbdodge]
#1320530
10/15/12 09:47 PM
10/15/12 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
TrWaters
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,129
Vermont
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They consider rat rods as junk and unsafe, but as you well know there are some very well built (and expensive) "rat rods". Many of those guys are stuck in the 50's. Really. Traditional? What is traditional? Period correct is a better classification. Dont feel bad about your post. Just last week I saw two get locked. One being about an hei fake magneto. The other about radial tires. But then again you will see posts about air bag suspensions with no one complaining.  I am probably gonna get banned now. 
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: TrWaters]
#1320531
10/15/12 10:14 PM
10/15/12 10:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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Totally lurk that site and use it for ideas. But the guys there are a little different. 
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: wedgeheaded]
#1320532
10/15/12 10:23 PM
10/15/12 10:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 251
Lithonia, Ga
36PLYM
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 251
Lithonia, Ga
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If you can find a copy of the first edition of Auto Cult, October 2011, there is a lot of interesting info on how the Rat Rod thing started. Is this a Rat Rod or a Street Rod that needs a lot of work?
Last edited by 36PLYM; 10/15/12 10:24 PM.
36 Plymouth Coupe
318 w/360 heads
518 trans
8 3/4 rear
Ga. Tech BCE'78
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: 36PLYM]
#1320533
10/15/12 10:57 PM
10/15/12 10:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
poorboy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,558
Freeport IL USA
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Quote:
If you can find a copy of the first edition of Auto Cult, October 2011, there is a lot of interesting info on how the Rat Rod thing started. Is this a Rat Rod or a Street Rod that needs a lot of work?
Well, you see, the HAMB doesn't like the "street rod" title either.
The car pictured above can be: a rat rod, a future street rod, a barn find traditional rod, or a hot rod. It is what ever the owner calls it, but if he visits the HAMB, he better not call it a rat rod or a street rod. If the guy posts the same car on Kilsbillet he can call it whatever he wants except maybe a street rod. If it has a Mopar motor, he can call it a Mopar rod here, but if it has a Chevy motor in a Mopar body, he would be better off not bragging about that part here. How what you call it is accepted or not depends on where you are.
I come from the time when a guy built his car to please him and he can call it whatever he want to. I may not like it, but its not mine. Just the same, when I visit a specific type of car website, I will do my best to blend in. Gene
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: poorboy]
#1320534
10/16/12 02:16 AM
10/16/12 02:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757
levittown pa
fstfish66
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,757
levittown pa
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from what i have seen the HAMB doesnt like any thing shinnny,,,
1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD)
1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod
2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver
2015 cherokee
2013 R/T classic
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: fstfish66]
#1320535
10/16/12 02:17 PM
10/16/12 02:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Quote:
from what i have seen the HAMB doesnt like any thing shinnny,,,
Check out the Larry Watson thread.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=573932
That is a single example. There are a ton more, but this one shows history and fantastic paint.
There are also threads on all black cars, some of the recent AMBR contenders, old school lowriders and many others that are all about shiny.
I will also mention that there was a thread recently that stated that membership had reached over 200,000 members total (not active). That means a lot of overlap, where they all may have different tastes, backgrounds and interests, but can come together for the (proudly) narrow focus of the site. It also means that there are always guys pushing for the site to spread in all sorts of different directions. So it also happens that some will complain about any perceived O/T post.
There are even a couple early van (EEEK!) threads!
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=741096
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: RodStRace]
#1320537
10/16/12 10:08 PM
10/16/12 10:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
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Traditional, everything works, safe to drive and looks the way they were built in the 40's and 50's. example
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: gregsrt]
#1320538
10/16/12 10:12 PM
10/16/12 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
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rat rods have turned into a caricature of sorts, weld lots of weird stuff to them etc. mostly unsafe and somewhat ugly....traditional doesn;t have to be perfect paint..
rat rod example
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: gregsrt]
#1320539
10/17/12 12:22 PM
10/17/12 12:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
RodStRace
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 12,481
Chino Valley
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Great visual examples, Greg!
I will mention that the beautiful Red one is a bit over the line towards a street rod because of a few things;
Radial tires
Blower
Alternator
The HAMB would appreciate it, but those items are not trad.
Last edited by RodStRace; 10/17/12 12:23 PM.
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: TrWaters]
#1320541
10/18/12 12:30 PM
10/18/12 12:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: TrWaters]
#1320542
10/19/12 12:06 AM
10/19/12 12:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
moparpollack
Lil Herman
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Lil Herman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,118
85086
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Quote:
I think what makes the "traditionalist" mad is the fact that people walk right on by their cookie cutter "traditional" Model A on 32 rails with a flathead or sbc... to look at a rat rod.
I still maintain there are some nicely built and ingenious rat rods. They all arent just unsafe junk thrown together.  www.ratrodsrule.com
Yup my friend has a patinaed 51 Chevy four door which is safe and fun. The guy next to him had a pretty car and actually asked him to move. My buddy was like  not going to do it. Sucks for the guy who had the pretty car since he needed work done on his car and a mutual buddy was going to introduce them so my buddy could do the work. Well the guy ended up trying to play nice which didn't work with my buddy.
It's funny my buddy's car ended up with an award and the guy with the pretty car didn't. The traditional cars are so expensive that a guy can't buy or build one but the rat rod is open for everyone to enjoy. 
56 Plaza 63 D100 step side 67 Coronet, 68 Roadrunner, 69 Super Bees, 69 Coronet 500 convertible, 70 Roadrunner Post, 79 D150 360, and a severe case of Mopar a,d,d
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Re: Traditional hot rod/rat rod what's the difference?
[Re: moparpollack]
#1320543
10/19/12 01:59 AM
10/19/12 01:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
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how about this type of traditional, rough but not ratty.
Rodstrace, are you sure the tires on the red one are radials? look bias to me and they had blowers on some in the 50's, no?
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
Thomas Jefferson
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