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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: FarDarter]
#130905
10/02/08 02:38 AM
10/02/08 02:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,466
So Cal
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Quote:
I haven't done it yet but I'm planning to rig up something like what you have in mind in my GTO. I'm going to modify an air cleaner base to run to the firewall and draw air in from the cowl. This is a high pressure zone at speed and unlike the hood scoop, will actually provide a light ram air effect. Here's a picture of Jim Hand's wagon using the same thing with two ducts.
Jim Hand's son is a member here; Tom Hand. He had a cowl induction setup on his 69 Barracuda 340. I think there might be one on his brother?in/laws? notchback that was in Mopar Action years ago also.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: FarDarter]
#130906
10/02/08 11:56 AM
10/02/08 11:56 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
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Quote:
I haven't done it yet but I'm planning to rig up something like what you have in mind in my GTO. I'm going to modify an air cleaner base to run to the firewall and draw air in from the cowl. This is a high pressure zone at speed and unlike the hood scoop, will actually provide a light ram air effect. Here's a picture of Jim Hand's wagon using the same thing with two ducts.
Nice. So, where exactly does this system pull in outside air from, the front vent valance? Looks really nice.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: 68Bullit]
#130907
10/02/08 12:18 PM
10/02/08 12:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Remember, the late 70s aircleaners are set up for 3" flex tube already, so get 2 of them and put the snorkel from one onto the other. I did that with my 77 Cordoba when I was 17 (gosh, 20 years ago!).
Didn't notice any performance improvememnt, but there are lots of jetting, etc variables to investigate (which I didn't know how to do back then).
There’s an Aussie magazine website that did some investigating on this regarding using a pressure gauge and tubing at the front of the car to determine optimum placement of scoops. Do a search for ‘negative pressure supercharging’ or something like that.
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: mkdart]
#130912
10/02/08 09:39 PM
10/02/08 09:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,476
340dart4spd
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,476
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Quote:
here's mine
Hey?? that reminds me I need to buy some flexible dryer vent!!!!!
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: mkdart]
#130914
10/02/08 11:18 PM
10/02/08 11:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
CT USA
Nick Mineau
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 350
CT USA
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Quote:
here's mine
not to steel the thread but how did you build the part surrounding the air cleaner or where are they sold.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: mkdart]
#130917
10/06/08 08:32 AM
10/06/08 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
here's mine
if you replaced the Corrugated duct work with a something smooth your air flow would be much better.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: CYACOP]
#130922
10/08/08 05:04 PM
10/08/08 05:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
No matter how nice it is done or comes out, I really dont think there is any advantage to it myself. It just adds junk under the hood of a nice car.
I put one of the dual snorkle 'Ram Air" units on a 440 Cuda back in about 2000-2001. Sealed the top cleaner lid (they use a standard 14") and routed the two 4 inch ducts through the radiator support. (Battery was already in the trunk and no washer bottle so plenty of room) Car had a solid .25 second 1/4 improvement with NO other changes.
It worked for me, definatley. Looked great too.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: Fury Fan]
#130925
10/08/08 05:13 PM
10/08/08 05:13 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Remember, the late 70s aircleaners are set up for 3" flex tube already, so get 2 of them and put the snorkel from one onto the other. I did that with my 77 Cordoba when I was 17 (gosh, 20 years ago!).
Didn't notice any performance improvememnt, but there are lots of jetting, etc variables to investigate (which I didn't know how to do back then).
There’s an Aussie magazine website that did some investigating on this regarding using a pressure gauge and tubing at the front of the car to determine optimum placement of scoops. Do a search for ‘negative pressure supercharging’ or something like that.
high pressure always seeks a low pressure "out". there is a tremendous amount of
high pressure at the base of the windshield. there is also a tremendous amount
of low pressure inside the air cleaner assembly. the high pressure rushes in to fill
the void, thus causing a "ram" effect. thats why cowl induction hood are so effective
when sealed to the hood. with jetting/timing etc, i've seen greater then a 1/2sec
improvement using this setup. very effective to say the least.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: Devil]
#130926
10/09/08 10:12 AM
10/09/08 10:12 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
These cold air setups don't get above the boundry layer of air moving over the skin of the hood. So they have no effect on engine performance. You need to get above the boundry layer to get any noticeable effects.
The cowl induction hood uses the difference in pressure at the bottom of the windshield to get cold air effects. And the 69 A12 car's scoops just barely got into it.
Ryan
Who cares about a boundry layer when your grabbing cold air from the front side of the radiator support? Wish I had a picture but I don't. My .25 second improvement was from both COLD air AND RAM air at speed. And I think the Ram air had the bigger effect--due to the gluteus maximus dyno feeling once I reached about 70.
But the dragstrip clock proved the performance increase...over and over.
If you don't mind the look, it can be very effective. The cowl induction setups I think would have a much lesser improvement
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#130927
10/09/08 10:30 AM
10/09/08 10:30 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The cowl induction setups I think would have a much lesser improvement
not true. boundry bleedoff layer scoops are only as effective as to how the
air is coming off the front end of a vehicle. u have to experiment or use
a windtunnel to find the optimum height. whereas the cowl style hood feeds
from the highpressure zone at the base of the windshield. something thats
always there and consistant no matter the aerodynamics of the vehicle.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: 70duster340]
#130931
10/09/08 10:53 AM
10/09/08 10:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
I don't mean to hijack this post, but something I gotta ask. If the ram air thing works as does the cold air intake, then why do these aftermarket companies sell what they call cold air intakes that are really just open air elements that are open under the hood? Won't those so-called cold air intakes just pull in the hot air from under the hood? I would think that in this case, the factory intakes would outperform these aftermarket systems, wouldn't they? 
Some aftermarket kits do go thru the core support of thru the fender. Most newer cars do pull in outside air. My 95 Dakota has duct work from the grill to the air cleaner assembly. Thus it'd be cool-air. I yanked the plastic piece the place in front of it (I guess to keep big items out) and ran a larger element.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: 70duster340]
#130935
10/09/08 02:02 PM
10/09/08 02:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Need more ideas where to actually draw in cool, outside air from. I know on my satellite, the only place I can see is the block off plates in the inner fender wells. Downside to hooking up there is the air inlet tube would have to run right over the exhaust header, and it would be sucking air right in from the side of the tires. High pressure zone down there, so that's good, but also might make the engine suck up water on wet days? Quote:
I agree with ya, swingin', but there are some kits out there that are just an open box with a cone style filter attached that claim to be a cold air induction to replace the stock unit. This is on newer vehicles. I have always wondered how they can claim that it pulls in cold air if it's pulling in hot air from under the hood.
Because those kits are the biggest joke in automotive history. And the fact that so many people pay 200-300 bucks for these kits is mind boggling!
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#130937
10/09/08 02:39 PM
10/09/08 02:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
you would just have to make another bend and carry the vent futher forward..
Yeah but to where? I'm not really in love with the idea of cutting holes in my inner fenders to draw in air.
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: 68Bullit]
#130944
10/13/08 09:00 AM
10/13/08 09:00 AM
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
360view
Moparts resident spammer
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Moparts resident spammer
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,162
USA
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along with knowing the 'true' facts about Ram Air it is also valuable to be able to calculate how much hp is gained with colder air or lost with restriction from a filter. old post: --------------- Page 415 of the Bosch Automotive Handbook, 5th edition http://tinyurl.com/yplr3dhas the two equations you need to see how horsepower and torque change when either temperature or pressure change. For temperature the official equation used by Americans (SAE) Europeans (ISO) and Japanese (JIN) is: { Temperature Before + 460/Temperature After +460} raised to exponent 0.6 you need a scientific calculator to do this but there is one built into every Windows computer under Start...Accessories As an example, say that your re-locate your air inlet to a spot where the air temperature drops to 80 degrees when before the air coming in had been 100 degrees. {100 +460 divided by 80 + 460} raised to exponent 0.6 ={560/540} raised to exponent 0.6 = {1.037} raised to exponent 0.6 = 1.022 You multiply this number times your horsepower or torque so if your engine. If your engine makes 230 hp at peak 1.022 times 230 = 235 horsepower with the 20 degree lower air temperature. You may have heard the 'Rule of Thumb' that each 10 degree F reduction in air temperature improves horsepower by 'about' 1% and the equation above is where that comes from, but is more accurate For corrections when the pressure changes the following equation is used: {absolute pressure after/absolute pressure before} raised to exponent 1.2 As an example say that the weather is changing where you live and one day the weatherman says the pressure is 29.5 inches of Mercury as a stormy "Low" passes over then the next day a clear sky "High Pressure Area" passes over and the pressure rises to 30 inches of Mercury {30/29.5} raised to exponent 1.2 {1.0169} raised to exponent 1.2 = 1.0204 It is important to realize that built right into your engine are IAT (intake air temperature) and MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensors. Your IAT and MAP sensor outputs can tell you whether an aftermarket air intake has helped or hurt your power output. You can read these sensors yourself by using an OBD-II scanner, or a cheap electrical multimeter. You are correct to suspect that most CAI's only make more noise and have flashy colored parts. Want confirmation about this from a CAI manufacturer? Well right now KN Filters is running an advertisement in the various hot rod magazine saying that a typical paper air filter from the factory creates a restriction of about 2.8 inches of water....and when this filter gets really dirty the restriction rises to about 12 inches of water restriction. The KN advertisement has a dyno graph showing that this can cause about 11 hp power loss on a high horsepower engine. The pressure of the air around us is about 404 inches of water so KN Filter is saying that the pressure is changing from 404 - 2.8 = 401.2 to a new pressure of 404 - 12 = 392 inches of water Play around with the equations above and you can find out what the actual horsepower of the engine KN was using was....and then confirm it by looking at the dyno graph in the advertisement. The old saying is: Figures Never Lie But Liars always are Figuring
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Re: Homebrew cold air intake using dual snorkel
[Re: 360view]
#130945
10/20/08 09:43 AM
10/20/08 09:43 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
Den300
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Hamburg / Germany
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very interesting! didn´t knew that.
but does someone knows a formula how to calculate
the needed diameter of an intkaehose?
no matter if cold air is really needed or not.
I have 2x600cfm edelbrock. that means, the hose
should be able to let 1200cfm air through, right?
but how to calculate the diameter? I mean if the pressure
is right, any hose can suck 1200cfm.
Hamburg/Germany
69 Chrysler 300
446cui Dual Quad
12.64 @ 110.7
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