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Delay Box Help #1289204 08/21/12 02:53 PM 08/21/12 02:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca K Kenny705K OP member
Kenny705K OP member K Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca	Alright guys, maybe someone can help explain something to me. The classes I run have always used a .4 tenths heads up pro tree. But, this weekend I decided to jump in to Super Pro just for fun and try out our new delay box. So, on Saturday I ran our usual .4 pro tree and cut lights of .018 and .004 without any delay in the box. So on Sunday when I entered Super Pro I did the math, and decided to put in 1.100 seconds of delay to compensate for the .5 tenths tree. In time trials I cut a light of -.039. I just figured it must be a fluke light, or I jumped or something and didn't think much of it. I decided to add a little more to it just to be safe for first round so I put in 1.110. Then I went -.023! So, if you consider both delays I was really -.039 and -.033. So after this happened I asked a few racers and they said that they can't explain it, but for some reason you have to add another .040 to the delay box? So my lights were really .007 and .001 if I would of had it right. Can anyone explain to me why it doesnt add up?

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289205 08/21/12 03:51 PM 08/21/12 03:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,413 Newark,Ohio kissmyaspen pro stock
kissmyaspen pro stock Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,413 Newark,Ohio	i would say it has to do with how much faster the .4 tree is.... but i would be willing to say that most of the super pro guys on here have between 1.130 - 1.150 in there boxes. 79 Dodge Aspen 12.265 at 109.75 MPH 67 Satellite NSS/E 11.83 @ 110 1968 Plymouth Road Runner 472 Hemi 3 time MOPAR NATIONALS CHAMP '03 FWD and '06 & '09 Street. '07, '10, '12 Mopar Nats runner-up Street.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: kissmyaspen] #1289206 08/21/12 05:55 PM 08/21/12 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 67 Walhalla, SC BlueDart member
BlueDart member Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 67 Walhalla, SC	last Week I had 1.100 in mine and was -.004 first round car is full tube daytona small block P/G but I'm old and react is slow

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: BlueDart] #1289207 08/21/12 06:09 PM 08/21/12 06:09 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	When you leave with no delay are you on a two step or on the mat? Maybe with the little extra time with the delay, the motor has a little more time to RPM and it can get you into the sweetspot of the converter so it leaves harder. Do you have any kind of recording device on the car?

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289208 08/21/12 06:27 PM 08/21/12 06:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 65 Florida S superstreet1896 member
superstreet1896 member S Joined: Aug 2010 Posts: 65 Florida	was this on a led tree??? they say its a 400 pro tree but its really about a 370 tree. there for there is the 3 to 4 hundredths you were being told. they call it led compensation. its because you see the leds much faster than you saw the old incondesent lights. they started doing this when all the pro stock bikes were redlighting when the leds first came out

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: superstreet1896] #1289209 08/21/12 06:31 PM 08/21/12 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas	I'm thinking it likely has something to do with when you are getting on the chip. In my car we just ad the time between whatever pro tree and full tree and are fine. I know a lot of guys get to pedal matted as soon as the first amber comes down. My guess is you are seeing a tad more temp which may be causing the converter to flash a bit higher once the button releases. If you are not leaving on a chip you are likely seeing more stall speed off the converter due to more heat being in it. "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: superstreet1896] #1289210 08/21/12 06:33 PM 08/21/12 06:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca K Kenny705K OP member
Kenny705K OP member K Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca	Yeah they were LED's, and I have heard of it really being a .370 tree. But, I race there all the time and consistently cut .00-.020 lights with zero delay in the box. You would think that I would need 1.100 more, without adding the extra .030 to compensate. I don't think the car reacts any different, as I don't put it on the converter until after I let go of the button.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289211 08/21/12 10:22 PM 08/21/12 10:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 252 St.Louis, Mo. M mokid enthusiast
mokid enthusiast M Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 252 St.Louis, Mo.	What light are you leaving on.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289212 08/21/12 10:52 PM 08/21/12 10:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Most likely its like Al said... conv... but I dont know why you care.. so what if its not linear just put more time in the box.... are you using a data system if so that should tell you why... if you measure the trans temp EDIT also what box are you using Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/21/12 10:57 PM.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1289213 08/22/12 01:57 AM 08/22/12 01:57 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,360 Mobile Alabama S SB412DUSTER top fuel
SB412DUSTER top fuel S Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,360 Mobile Alabama	How are you staging on the Pro tree and how on the full tree?

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: SB412DUSTER] #1289214 08/22/12 11:57 AM 08/22/12 11:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!! sr4440 super stock
sr4440 super stock Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!	I am suprised that most people don't know that NHRA changed their "pro tree" to .370. This was due to red lights because you can see the LEDs so much sooner. If you are running a NHRA track, that would explain it. here's a old link http://forum.competitionplus.com/archive/index.php/t-393.html read what jeff foster has to say. Joe Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: sr4440] #1289215 08/22/12 12:19 PM 08/22/12 12:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 341 Highland beach Fl P poisondart2 enthusiast
poisondart2 enthusiast P Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 341 Highland beach Fl	Quote: I am suprised that most people don't know that NHRA changed their "pro tree" to .370. This was due to red lights because you can see the LEDs so much sooner. If you are running a NHRA track, that would explain it. here's a old link http://forum.competitionplus.com/archive/index.php/t-393.html read what jeff foster has to say. Joe No I did not know this and thanks for pointing it out

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: poisondart2] #1289216 08/22/12 01:00 PM 08/22/12 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas	The ".370-.385" light is for NHRA NATIONAL events only. It does not pertain to divisional or local bracket programs. So it is a moot point. It was done for Pro Stock and Pro Stock bike mainly to help cut down on red lights. "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1289217 08/22/12 01:16 PM 08/22/12 01:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca K Kenny705K OP member
Kenny705K OP member K Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca	Quote: Most likely its like Al said... conv... but I dont know why you care.. so what if its not linear just put more time in the box.... are you using a data system if so that should tell you why... if you measure the trans temp EDIT also what box are you using I don't care, and have no problem adding the time to the box but I was wondering if anyone could explain why, because it doesn't make sense to me. I guess I cared on Sunday when it cost me on raceday but now I am just curious. I'm using a Biondo Little Wizard. I don't see how converter could be the issue. I doubt I'm on the converter any longer/shorter than when I run the pro tree

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289218 08/22/12 01:22 PM 08/22/12 01:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!! sr4440 super stock
sr4440 super stock Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!	kenny what timing system are they using? it should be printed on the ticket. Joe Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289219 08/22/12 01:34 PM 08/22/12 01:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	I don't care, and have no problem adding the time to the box but I was wondering if anyone could explain why, because it doesn't make sense to me. I guess I cared on Sunday when it cost me on raceday but now I am just curious. I'm using a Biondo Little Wizard. I don't see how converter could be the issue. I doubt I'm on the converter any longer/shorter than when I run the pro tree Well I couldnt say for fact what it is since you say you arent on the conv any longer... unless its like someone said about the .370 light and the place you race just leaves it that way... but I've never seen a track with it(I dont race at any NHRA events) ... the reason I asked about the box was I use to use a Deadenbar (sp) and it had the thumb wheels and if I changed the delay I had to spin them to clean the dust off the contacts or it would get some goofy numbers(that drove me crazy for a while) and ended up buying a new Biondo box....good luck in your quest to find the difference

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289220 08/22/12 01:40 PM 08/22/12 01:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas Al_Alguire I Live Here
Al_Alguire I Live Here Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 19,377 Las Vegas	Kenny you guys usually video the races right? Check the tape and see if you may on the converter varying amounts? Either way could be the issue, just curious. As I say we just simply ad the amount for the tree, nothing else. Staging a tad shallower when on a full tree could account for a little as well. I try to be in first most times just so I can stage exactly how I want to. But you are a great racer and do you share of winning so you dont need my advice. Did you guys open a shop in Fairfield on Texas? I was just there and saw a Moorhead Auto on the curve there. "I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know." "It's never wrong to do the right thing"

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Al_Alguire] #1289221 08/22/12 06:55 PM 08/22/12 06:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca K Kenny705K OP member
Kenny705K OP member K Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 51 Vacaville, Ca	Quote: Kenny you guys usually video the races right? Check the tape and see if you may on the converter varying amounts? Either way could be the issue, just curious. As I say we just simply ad the amount for the tree, nothing else. Staging a tad shallower when on a full tree could account for a little as well. I try to be in first most times just so I can stage exactly how I want to. But you are a great racer and do you share of winning so you dont need my advice. Did you guys open a shop in Fairfield on Texas? I was just there and saw a Moorhead Auto on the curve there. That is not our shop, but it's my Dad's 2nd cousin I think. I only met them once years ago. Thanks for the input. I will just have to add it and not worry about why it happens lol

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: Kenny705K] #1289222 12/14/12 03:25 PM 12/14/12 03:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!! sr4440 super stock
sr4440 super stock Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!	I bringing this back from the dead because I finally got a answer back from Jeff foster. Quote: Jeff Sorry to bother you but there is a discussion on another board about the Christmas tree lights. I was under the impression that all �pro tree� lights are now .370 but some insist that this is �only� for select classes IE pro stock, pro stock bike. Can you shed some light on the subject (no pun intended) Thanks for your time Joe his response Quote: Sorry for the delay in response, I don't check the PMs often. as for the questions, all pro light classes in NHRA IHRA and most pro mod/ Pro street groups run it as a .370 tree Jeff Foster Compulink Joe Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.

Re: Delay Box Help [Re: sr4440] #1289223 12/19/12 03:11 AM 12/19/12 03:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 426 Cascade, CO reknapp52 mopar
reknapp52 mopar Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 426 Cascade, CO	FWIW--I have found that all NHRA National Events use the .370 tree in pro-light classes, but at Divisional events, some do and some don't--most of my experience is in Division 5 (Super Gas). 7509691-TexasMotorplexDivisional02.JPG (134 downloads)

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