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Dry sump or vacuum pump #1286981
08/17/12 01:08 PM
08/17/12 01:08 PM
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Indiana
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79_W200 Offline OP
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Was going to install vacuum pump instead of evac tubes or would switching to dry sump setup be better option. Engine is in pulling truck 470 with iron-1 heads around 750hp a run last around 25 sec at 7000-8000 rpm . wet sump external lines keeps good psi currently. thanks for input


1979 W200 470
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286982
08/17/12 01:40 PM
08/17/12 01:40 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Dry sump is more Gucci.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286983
08/17/12 05:05 PM
08/17/12 05:05 PM
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julian2007 Offline
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A good vacuum pump system is 1000.00 a good dry sump system is 5000.00

if all you are trying to do is pull vacuum in the motor the the 1 grand deal is the way to go.

If you want a oiling system that don't suck the dry sump system is the way to go.

either way turn your main seal around (put it in backwards) you will get more vacuum.

Last edited by julian2007; 08/17/12 05:11 PM.

God made cold beer,good friends,hot ladies and race cars don't spit in his face by pi$$ing and moaning about how life sucks!!!
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286984
08/17/12 05:06 PM
08/17/12 05:06 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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There are a lot of advantages to a dry sump system. Especially in a pulling truck where you have a ton of room around the engine for the lines and tank. If you have the money for the pump and pan I'd highly recommend the dry sump system. The bearings will thank you.

7339340-pan.jpg (246 downloads)
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: AndyF] #1286985
08/17/12 05:58 PM
08/17/12 05:58 PM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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This is what I'm talking about

7339405-dds.jpg (432 downloads)

2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: julian2007] #1286986
08/17/12 08:17 PM
08/17/12 08:17 PM
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Oregon
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AndyF Offline
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A dry sump system can be put together fairly cheaply if a person buys used parts. I did a low buck dry sump system for my 505 motor for less than $1000. I used an older 3 stage pump from a circle track car, a deep wet sump pan and a used tank. I had to fabricate a couple of parts and buy hoses. It worked great and didn't cost much at all. The tech article on my website shows a little more detail. www.arengineering.com

7339582-lead.jpg (203 downloads)
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286987
08/17/12 11:35 PM
08/17/12 11:35 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Dry sump is better all the way around... but the cost...
you can get one for about $3500... CV Product sell mostly
roundy round stuff but that where I bought mine...
I also made most of the stuff like the tank and pan

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: rickseeman] #1286988
08/18/12 09:29 AM
08/18/12 09:29 AM
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Indiana
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79_W200 Offline OP
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Quote:

This is what I'm talking about




That setup looks interesting

Last edited by 79_W200; 08/18/12 09:30 AM.

1979 W200 470
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286989
08/18/12 09:51 AM
08/18/12 09:51 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Quote:

This is what I'm talking about




That setup looks interesting




Yes it does.... a billet pan.... that has to COST

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286990
08/18/12 09:58 AM
08/18/12 09:58 AM
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julian2007 Offline
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peterson r4 pump = 1800.00
peterson tank = 680.00
peterson 400 filter = 200.00
drive system = 500.00
lines and fittings =1000.00
charlies pan = 600.00
plus shipping and tax and you have a good system

You can not use a wet sump pan and turn it into a dry sump pan by simply sawing holes in the side and adding fittings.

look in a good DRY SUMP pan and you will see the the difference,you are not just sucking oil off the bottom of the pan they call them scavenge sections for a reason.

people sell used parts for a reason, buy those used up things and wander why they need a vacuum pump on top of a dry sump pump to make vacuum.You should be able to pull 18 inches of vacuum with a good drysump pump and NO VAC PUMP if not its at the end of its life or it was junk in the first place,If you are going to half a$$ a dry sump system you would be better off using a good wet sump system.


God made cold beer,good friends,hot ladies and race cars don't spit in his face by pi$$ing and moaning about how life sucks!!!
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: julian2007] #1286991
08/18/12 12:00 PM
08/18/12 12:00 PM
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AndyF Offline
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Actually the wet sump pan worked okay in our testing. And the low dollar used pump off of a circle track car also worked okay. That setup wasn't strong enough to pull a lot of vacuum, but it ran just fine as a dry sump.

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: julian2007] #1286992
08/18/12 12:11 PM
08/18/12 12:11 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Depending on how well its sealed and the number of
suction sections will determine how much it will pull
on the vac.. with mine I can get 13"hg with just the
pump... which is plenty of vac

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1286993
08/18/12 12:40 PM
08/18/12 12:40 PM
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Yes this is not my first rodeo or dry sump syetem I have had them long enough to where them out.The peterson is the one that works the best(schavenges correctly) I just dont see why you would mess with it if it was not at its full potential.I know to buy a pump that is sized (number of stages)correctly to get proper vacuum but the first timers dont, thats why its important to talk to the makers of dry sump pumps when you are green so you dont build a bomb.

just because it sucks and blowes doesen't make it a good hooker


God made cold beer,good friends,hot ladies and race cars don't spit in his face by pi$$ing and moaning about how life sucks!!!
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286994
08/18/12 12:41 PM
08/18/12 12:41 PM
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Quote:

Was going to install vacuum pump instead of evac tubes or would switching to dry sump setup be better option. Engine is in pulling truck 470 with iron-1 heads around 750hp a run last around 25 sec at 7000-8000 rpm . wet sump external lines keeps good psi currently. thanks for input




On my old alum. Yates headed 412" SBF, I had a 4-stage setup and also the big enhanced Moroso vac pump. It would pull 10"-12" just spinning it over with a 18v power drill and showing 50psi oil pressure on my Racepak when I'd check it. On a pass at 9200-9400 RPM it would pull 18"-22" vacuum at WOT w/ two Gunz firing. Engine was sealed up well.

Dry sump would always be the way to go if budget allows. Build the system around your needs. As stated, you can piece together a pretty nice system if you look around and not in a hurry. I wouldn't go less than a 4-stage system. Buy the best 4-stage+ pump you can. Keep your eyes open for a Frank Weiss, Auto Verdi or Dailey pump; the best. Peterson's R-4 pump is really nice also. I'd steer clear of the off-shore billet pumps; lots of problems with those. The used parts are out there, just have to look. Use a quality pan.

If you wanted to stay with a wet sump setup buy a really good pan, applicable Star Products Vac pump setup and a Titan Chrysler Pro Series pump.

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: EvilB1Dart] #1286995
08/18/12 02:22 PM
08/18/12 02:22 PM
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79_W200 Offline OP
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This will be a winter upgrade so im in no rush the fab part is not a problem budget is not unlimited but i have been down the road of not doing it right the first time and ends up costing more to get right the thought is instead of spending on a vacuum pump setup and then down the road needing to upgrade to a dry system and have wasted money on vacuum. What do you use to know how many stages/scavenge and presure out


1979 W200 470
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286996
08/18/12 03:51 PM
08/18/12 03:51 PM
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AndyF Offline
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For a pulling truck where you have plenty of ground clearance it would make sense to use a deep pan rather than the typical shallow dry sump pan. I posted the picture above where we used a deep wet sump pan for a dry sump system and that worked great in our application. It would also work on a truck puller. But most wet sump pans are only going to accept two pickups so that is a limitation. If you're going to go with a 4 stage or 5 stage pump then you'll need a custom built, deep full length pan.

If you're going to get a custom pan you might as well make it as deep as your chassis will allow. Most of the dry sump pans on the market are designed for circle track use. What you're doing is different than that so you don't need to follow what those guys do.

Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: 79_W200] #1286997
08/20/12 09:12 AM
08/20/12 09:12 AM
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julian2007 Offline
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Quote:

This will be a winter upgrade so im in no rush the fab part is not a problem budget is not unlimited but i have been down the road of not doing it right the first time and ends up costing more to get right the thought is instead of spending on a vacuum pump setup and then down the road needing to upgrade to a dry system and have wasted money on vacuum. What do you use to know how many stages/scavenge and presure out




Your best bet is to call a dry sump manufacturer and talk to them about what you are doing and they will give you the advice you can count on to be correct and true.A dry sump system is a investment in the future of your engine and after you have one you will wander how you got by before.Peterson makes some nice mounts,drive systems,tanks,filters and some really cool trick parts to make instolation cleaner.
good luck,Bruce


God made cold beer,good friends,hot ladies and race cars don't spit in his face by pi$$ing and moaning about how life sucks!!!
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: julian2007] #1286998
08/20/12 12:36 PM
08/20/12 12:36 PM
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Peterson does make really nice stuff, but they don't have Mopar specific parts. We make the block plates and drive plates for Mopar engines as well as distributor plugs and a few other items. www.arengineering.com then click on dry sump.

7342793-AR337a(Large).jpg (158 downloads)
Re: Dry sump or vacuum pump [Re: AndyF] #1286999
08/20/12 02:37 PM
08/20/12 02:37 PM
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Kentucky
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Hey Andy how many passes were made on the motor that you made the dry sump for?







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