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Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? #1286253
08/16/12 10:21 AM
08/16/12 10:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

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Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
I'm looking at a car with 120-125psi compression on each cylinder and I've never thought of this question before so I'm askin' it here.

Does that PSI compression translate into a compression ratio? Like does 9.5:1 = XXX psi?

Thanks,
-Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #1286254
08/16/12 10:23 AM
08/16/12 10:23 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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No , cam timing bleeds off or builds pressure , that 125 says it's probably less that 9 though .

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: JohnRR] #1286255
08/16/12 03:22 PM
08/16/12 03:22 PM
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northwest USA
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Quote:

No , cam timing bleeds off or builds pressure , that 125 says it's probably less that 9 though .




Holy contradiction batman! You say no, then offer a compression ratio from the numbers.

Cannot guess what the actual compression ratio is unless you know several things, like the camshaft specs. Is it a stock 2bbl cam or a snazzy racing cam? Is the cam timing retarded or advanced? Is this a running engine or non runner with a jumped timing chain? Lots of questions, need more information.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: NANKET] #1286256
08/16/12 03:33 PM
08/16/12 03:33 PM
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Texas
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ChristianCuda Offline
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There is no direct correlation but based on experience some people can give you a hypothetical approximation. There is a correlation though if you have 160 psi more than likely you either have higher compression or a small cam. This can not say that a 125 psi can not have higher compression but due to lots of overlap in the cam it is bled off at lower rpms (where you check compression) but in the higher rpms it doesn't have time to bleed it off creating the high compression at a higher rpm.

Basically you can get a relative reference but without knowing the chamber size the, the quench, piston (dish,dome) Deck Height, stroke and bore, and cam specs with installed centerline its impossible to calculate the compression ratio. The Cylinder pressure mainly just tells you the health of the cylinder with some relation to the Compression ratio.

Another way to think about it is you could have a 11:1 compression and the rings have a lot of blow by due to cylinder wear you might get 110 psi where as on a good motor it should be at 160psi (psi figures not exact just for example), that 11:1 with a long duration came could read at 125psi for a good motor and 90 psi for one worn out The PSI doesn't tell you the compression ratio but if you know the compression ratio and engine build you can see if the cylinders are good based on the compression test.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: NANKET] #1286257
08/16/12 04:49 PM
08/16/12 04:49 PM
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JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

No , cam timing bleeds off or builds pressure , that 125 says it's probably less that 9 though .




Holy contradiction batman! You say no, then offer a compression ratio from the numbers.






No not really, considering how Chrysler gave out bogus advertised compression ratios to begin with its not hard to surmise that most engines actual are below 9 to begin with .

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #1286258
08/16/12 10:10 PM
08/16/12 10:10 PM
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If the engine is all original then you can guess what the compression ratio is by reading the compression gauge.

On a race engine you would be guessing in the dark. 200 psi could be 12:1 with a small cam, or 15:1 with a big cam.

Cranking psi also varies dramatically with cranking speed, carb restriction, barometric pressure, etc.

When I do a cranking psi test on a race engine I warm up the engine, remove all plugs, remove the carb, and use a fully charged battery. That way I can get some half way consistent readings. But the readings will still vary on a cold day vs. a hot day.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: AndyF] #1286259
08/16/12 10:46 PM
08/16/12 10:46 PM
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MO, USA
Tom Hand Offline
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Dad's Pontiac engine has 220 PSI cranking pressure and it is about 10.1:1. It has Rhoads lifters and those really goof the static numbers. My 340 that has true 10.8:1 and has cranking compression of 125 to 130 PSI. It has the older, more radical 340 manual trans cam. And my old 2.2 turbo with about 8.4:1 had 130 PSI. I had a relatively zero overlap cam in it.

So no, the numbers you get can't really tell you much other than how one cylinder relates to its brothers and sisters. :)

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: Tom Hand] #1286260
08/17/12 07:57 AM
08/17/12 07:57 AM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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My 10.3-1 340 with a 474 cam has 165 psi cranking pressure on all 8 cyls!

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: Challenger 1] #1286261
08/17/12 08:57 AM
08/17/12 08:57 AM
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Middle River, MD
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Mapandjlp Offline
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Quote:

My 10.3-1 340 with a 474 cam has 165 psi cranking pressure on all 8 cyls!




Almost exactly the same as mine...except it's a 360.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #1286262
08/18/12 10:56 AM
08/18/12 10:56 AM
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USA
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360view Offline
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Short answer:
the computer program
Engine Analyzer 3.2 does a pretty good job of taking every thing into account and calculating a cranking compression PSI

http://performancetrends.com/download.htm#ea3

Long answer:

If the camshaft closed the exhaust valve at top dead center and the intake valve at bottom dead center
And
The rings leaked no air
And
The cylinder head, bore walls and piston were perfect insulators
And
There was no humidity in the air the engine drew in
And
you knew the "ratio of the specific heats" of the air that is given the nickname Gamma,
... Then you could calculate the compression PSI
by hand with a modestly complicated "Power Law" math equation

Details of this at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_process#Example_of_adiabatic_compression

It is inaccurate to simply multiply
the 14.7 PSI of the air around us
by the compression ratio of the engine,
but that gets less inaccurate
the colder And drier the air is.
If you were working on snowmobile engines at the South Pole you would not be far off that way.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: 360view] #1286263
08/19/12 11:57 PM
08/19/12 11:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
67SATisfaction Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art
67SATisfaction  Offline OP
The member whose name is actually Art

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,541
Albany, NY
Thanks, as a rookie it's nice to know the details.
Its a stock engine and the published specs say it has 8.5:1 CR. Every cylinder was betw 120-125psi so it sounds like its reasonably healthy. I'm used to 140-145psi so I was concerned about potential issues before buying it. But i did! I will post about it when I get it on the road, it needs new headgaskets and some other work first.
Thanks, -Art


65 Satellite hardtop 361/4bbl console 727 2.76
67 Satellite convert 383/2bbl column 727 3.23
67 Lancia Fulvia Sport 1.3 Zagato. Alloy body, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
67 Lancia Fulvia Rallye 1.3. Alloy panel, 1.3L V4 DOHC 4-spd
71 Alfa Romeo GT Junior 1300 Zagato, 1.3L 4cyl DOHC hemi 5-spd
82 Alfa Romeo GTV6 2.5L SOHC hemi V6 5-spd transaxle
75 Maserati Bora US spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
77 Maserati Khamsin Euro spec 4.9L DOHC hemi V8 5-spd ZF
07 Aston Martin DB9 6.0L DOHC V12 6spd transaxle
Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: 67SATisfaction] #1286264
08/20/12 01:49 AM
08/20/12 01:49 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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Compression ratio can be estimated/calculated from the cranking cylinder pressure if you know the intake valve closing point, and cylinder leakage.

Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: JohnRR] #1286265
08/20/12 05:30 AM
08/20/12 05:30 AM
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Posts: 4,233
petaluma,ca. u.s.a.
west Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

No , cam timing bleeds off or builds pressure , that 125 says it's probably less that 9 though .




Holy contradiction batman! You say no, then offer a compression ratio from the numbers.






No not really, considering how Chrysler gave out bogus advertised compression ratios to begin with its not hard to surmise that most engines actual are below 9 to begin with .




Re: Does psi compression relate to compression ratio? [Re: west] #1286266
08/20/12 09:51 AM
08/20/12 09:51 AM
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JohnRR Offline
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