Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262760
08/06/12 04:18 PM
08/06/12 04:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,607 Western Washington
Sixgun
OP
top fuel
|
OP
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,607
Western Washington
|
Boy, I had no idea how this post would go when I started it! I know we all have some strong opinions, but WOW! I sure have gained a lot of valuable insight from the braintrust, while reading this over the last few weeks.Some stuff I knew, some I THOUGHT I knew, some fresh info (for me at least). I like how y'all are keeping it respectful, but competitive, (for the most part). Great video of Daves Hemi trouncing GM. Good discussion! Case
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1262763
08/06/12 11:28 PM
08/06/12 11:28 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
|
Quote:
Six...what's it cost to build a 9.90 wedge and what's it cost to build a 9.90 Hemi
If ya gotta ask......
What's it cost to build a 8.20 @160+ SS legal HEMI and what's it cost to build an 8.20 @160+ SS legal wedge.....both at 3200#???
What's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod HEMI and what's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod wedge???
What's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph (1320ft) HEMI and what's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph wedge???
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262765
08/07/12 11:10 AM
08/07/12 11:10 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Six...what's it cost to build a 9.90 wedge and what's it cost to build a 9.90 Hemi
If ya gotta ask......
What's it cost to build a 8.20 @160+ SS legal HEMI and what's it cost to build an 8.20 @160+ SS legal wedge.....both at 3200#???
What's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod HEMI and what's it cost to build a 5sec legal Promod wedge???
What's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph (1320ft) HEMI and what's it cost to build a 4.40 @339mph wedge???
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
right on... that's what I've been saying fast wedge OK...really fast HEMI, just depends on your goals.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#1262766
08/08/12 11:22 PM
08/08/12 11:22 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,115 Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,115
Byron, NY
|
cant beleive this is still going on...Maybe this will help sway the Wedge guys... Santa and the Easter Bunny arnt real either!
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60 '01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust, '05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list '60 Willys CJ5 '01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison '64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1262770
08/09/12 04:57 PM
08/09/12 04:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,569 Motor City
6PKRTSE
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,569
Motor City
|
I have run both wedge & Hemi engines in the past. Cost for a HEMI is crazy for the same power but I have to admit the same exact car I would get twice the reaction from people looking at it & many more comments or questions asked when it had a HEMI over the wedge.
1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute 1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack 1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi 1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL 1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383 1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440 1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4 2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4 2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262773
08/09/12 08:32 PM
08/09/12 08:32 PM
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Quote:
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".
Sometimes it is not a matter of how fast you want to go but how you want to show. I am building a blown 588" Hemi with a 14-71 and will be doing street/strip duty as well as just plain old fashion showing off. Some folks just want a Hemi because..... and if you can afford it go for it, remember... you can't take it with you so live a little. It does not matter to me wether you go fast on the cheap, in between or in high style it's hot rodding man.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HYPER8oSoNic]
#1262774
08/09/12 08:43 PM
08/09/12 08:43 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027 Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
|
Quote:
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".
If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.
The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.
Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.
Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.
Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.
This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.
There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.
In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.
Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262775
08/09/12 09:36 PM
08/09/12 09:36 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
|
Quote:
Quote:
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".
If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.
The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.
Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.
Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.
Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.
This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.
There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.
In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.
Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.
Amen.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1262776
08/09/12 10:10 PM
08/09/12 10:10 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
Sometimes, cost isn't the factor.......reality is.
Reality could be a MAJOR factor!! BUT... without cost, how can reality be brought to your garage or trailered to the track? Cost sets the limit on dreams and ideas, which do turn to reality (if..the price is RIGHT!). Goes back to a ironclad statement: "Speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".
If you take the whole of my entire post, you will see that the combinations I listed are basically not possible with an inline valve, wedge head.
The reason I mentioned reality is because it is unrealistic to think one can build an inline valve, iron headed MOPAR....within a restricted Superstock rules package and think it could produce 8.20 elasped times, or crest 160+mph in a 3200# 40 year old body style.
Just as a legal Promod, deep into the 5 second zone at 260+mph, or a Fuel car running near 340mph in 1320ft is a job best left to a HEMI style engine.
Not to mention what happens at the local car show, cruise night, or burger joint when the hood pops and common folk notice the plug wires routed into the valve covers.
Realities all and no amount of money can dream the inline head into these territories.
This is not to say that the excellent MOPAR wedge engine doesn't have a huge place in the world of performance. They are strong...reliable...cost effective...powerful alternatives to the more exotic engines in the MOPAR arsenal.
There is plenty of room for both HEMI and wedge engines. My only point is this....as good as both style engines can be, in no way shape or form is the ceiling of the wedge equal to the HEMI....be it in max N/A iron headed form, or all aluminum with a $10,000 supercharger jamming exotic fules into it......PERIOD.
In the mid level and even into some very serious builds, the B1 selections (especially the PSO) are capable of outstanding numbers, but that's when the costs of the engines begins to narrow. Moreover, the technology of builds at this level, seem to favor the wedge engine in a number of build-ups I've seen, including those in this very forum. I have yet to see a Millennium headed engine be assembled with all the trimmings....dry sumps, lobe relocation, raw castings carved with the latest port design, state of the art ring stacks w/max vac......etc.
Bottom line, for most applications, a straight headed MOPAR will get the job done very nicely, but there are certain arenas when a HEMI head and ONLY a HEMI head will do.
Very well said. The only thing I might add is that alot of people seem to think the Hemi will awe everyone at a car show but I dont see this much anymore. I mean I used to see it all the time when Hemi's were scarce but I see so many Hemi's out there now that its not as big a deal as it used to be. It seems like there is always at least one or two or more Hemi's at my local cruise nite. Not like when I saw a 63 Ford with a 427 SOHC since they are so rare everyone was looking at it. Dont mean this to downplay the Hemi I just wanted to state that I see alot more Hemi's on the road now then I did 30 years ago or even 15 years ago. Myself I run to look when its a real factory Hemi car like a real 64 Hemi SS car or an original 68 Hemi Roadrunner. I guess we see so many more because they are alot of clones with Hemi's. And I also run when I see a real max Wedge car. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 08/09/12 10:12 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: 383man]
#1262777
08/10/12 04:44 PM
08/10/12 04:44 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
|
Dave Dudek just went 11.38@123 with a legal pure stock hemi super bee. I know a pure stock wedge could not do that.
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
|
|
|
|
|