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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1262558
07/11/12 10:44 AM
07/11/12 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Wedge racer and driver...by choice! always have been, always will be. I have no problem with the Hemi, it's a fine engine, just not impressed with Hemi owners who think everyone should bow down and ooh and aah over thier car because they have an engine that other people have done amazing things with.
Thats funny, not true of all but funny anyway. I think the OP needs to state his desires for the car..then one can get a better idea of what direction to steer him. If it's a 10.0 bracket car a Hemi would be a complete waste of money, but if it's a 8 second door slammer a Hemi would be the way to go...or just add about 14psi of boost to the 10 second wedge.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1262559
07/11/12 02:31 PM
07/11/12 02:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
mickm
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,179
California
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Quote:
Wedge racer and driver...by choice! always have been, always will be. I have no problem with the Hemi, it's a fine engine, just not impressed with Hemi owners who think everyone should bow down and ooh and aah over thier car because they have an engine that other people have done amazing things with.
of my 4 mopars, 2 have been (and 1 still is) a hemi. to me, it's just the ultimate engine. but i agree totally with that statement, whether it's a hemi or a BBC or a Boss 429, doesn't matter, it's the attitude.
i think it's a kick owning, working on (well, most of the time anyway), and driving a hemi. it's fun when people ooh and ahh over it, but it's not like i created the damn thing from my loins, it's just an engine!
and the main theme of this thread i think it right on; they are both great engines, but when you get into the mega horsepower, the hemi has the edge.
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: mickm]
#1262560
07/11/12 10:10 PM
07/11/12 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,072
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,072
Benton, IL.
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Isn't this sport about having fun? It is for me anyway.
You don't have to have an E body or a Hemi or an original Super Stocker to have fun. BUT, there is a reason that some spend the coin to have one of them. And there is a reason that some of the rest of us gravitate towards them.
If nothing else, seeing a Hemi is still rare enough to be an event for some of us.
Master, again and still
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1262563
07/12/12 04:05 PM
07/12/12 04:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109
Byron, NY
W.I.N. Racing
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,109
Byron, NY
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Quote:
As a Hemi owner since 1980 and a fan since 1964 let me say I do NOT hate wedges. They're great engines and it isn't a Hemi vs. Wedge deal like some guys make it out to be. They're both terrific engines but they were engineered for different uses and both have way overachieved what was expected of them when designed.
Sheldon
I go nothing agaist the wedge either...before the Cummins came along for our trucks they were great for towing our Hemi Race cars around!
'01 P1500, Blown/Inj BAE,/Veney ,Bruno/CS2,Dana 60
'01 Dodge 3500 S Cummins Auto, Fresh air kit, 4" Exhaust,
'05 Dodge Magnum R/T - Too Much to list
'60 Willys CJ5
'01 International LPX - Project,DT466, Allison
'64 Plymouth Valiant, Inj 528 Hemi, 2spd
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1262572
07/15/12 09:59 AM
07/15/12 09:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,392
nielsville, minn.
quickd100
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,392
nielsville, minn.
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Quote:
I have always heard that a hemi was better up top but gave up some power to the wedge at lower rpm. What if you built a large stroke hemi ( 540-572)? How would it compare to a 572 Wedge?
I wish I had a scanner but he's some numbers from my 605 Hemi. 10.4-1 compression, heads are pretty small by most standards 386.2@.700 lift. headers are 2 sizes to small also.Dave
RPM.....HP....Tq
3600 521.8 759.0
3743 544.8 764.4
3830 560.3 768.3
3938 583.8 778.6
4003 600.8 788.2
4111 630.8 805.9
4202 643.5 804.2
4327 667.7 810.4
4421 685.9 814.8
4501 699.7 816.5
4612 712.2 811.1
4702 727.8 813.0
4818 750.8 818.4 Torque peak
4906 760.7 814.4
5029 776.8 811.3
5110 782.6 804.4
5234 802.7 805.5
5302 814.4 806.8
5401 825.4 802.7
5512 840.4 800.8
5634 847.0 789.6
5716 852.4 783.3
5782 852.8 774.6 HP peak
5803 852.2 771.3
5929 844.0 747.6
6025 841.5 733.6
6106 837.1 720.0
6207 827.3 700.1
6315 822.0 683.6
6414 821.5 672.6
6507 815.8 658.5
6612 812.3 645.2
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1262574
07/15/12 11:02 AM
07/15/12 11:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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It is far easier to CORRECTLY build a wedge engine. The difference in cylinder head layout makes these two designs COMPLETELY different animals.
Most HEMI engines are built along common engine building lines and this gives up chunks of power. Proper intakes, camshaft, headers, etc., are CRITICAL to maximize the HEMI design and the information is very limited and those that have advanced information, don't just throw it out there.
Camshaft and header design alone, because of the scavenging effects of the opposed valve layout is so far from wedge requirments it's not funny. Make a mistake with overlap, for example and your HEMI will be very unhappy.
The top SS/AH HEMIs are OVER 2.3hp per cube with heavily worked production style heads. Try getting that out of a Max wedge and tell me how you make out.
Plus......what would you rather look at when you pop the hood???
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: 383man]
#1262575
07/15/12 11:03 AM
07/15/12 11:03 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
HPMike
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 6,446
NJ-USA
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Quote:
They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up.  Ron
Well put, Ron.. and I agree..
Here is something else to think about.
My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.
All he did was.
-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.
Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.
The Hemi really had it.. 
MB
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: HPMike]
#1262576
07/15/12 11:11 AM
07/15/12 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
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Quote:
Quote:
They are both Mopar so I like them both. But I know the 63 Max Wedge cars were street legal as anyone could buy one. I honestly feel in stock trim the Max Wedge was the fastest Mopar street muscle car sold in the muscle car era. Sure the Hemi was a race eng and would kick but when setup right but on the street in stock form it was held back and the wedge carried the banner for Mopar on the street most of the time. You have to ask yourself.........how many Hemi's did you see on the street in the 60's ? A stock Maxie 62 Dart 413 went 13.44 @ 109 for M/T. Good mph for a stock eng in 1962. 426 Maxie in 63 ran 12.60's @ almost 112 mph with just the cutouts open and Atlas tires. The Hemi to me was like Fords Boss 429 as it was choked out in stock form but was the king of all race engines where it dominated. The wedge had its place in Mopar history for sure and even ran good when prepped out. I dont know if my 63 would go any faster with a Hemi equipped the same as my wedge and thats because of the good heads out there for the wedge today. And everyone knows how well the 440 six pack cars ran on the street. And the Hemi dominated the first 2 years of Pro Stock so much they had to restrict it so GM and Ford could catch up. Ron
Well put, Ron.. and I agree..
Here is something else to think about.
My 71 Hemi Challenger was bought new by a guy with limited skills.
All he did was.
-Install headers.
-12.5:1 pitons.
-A Rat Roaster(unmodified)
-Carter Competition series carbs
-A Holley Red pump.
-A Racer Brown solid cam
-4.88 gears.
Car went 10.30's@134MPH. All stock suspension. Stock unmodded 4 speed, No spool. No headwork. Other than a big block Vette there probably isnt any musclecar that could go that fast with such relatively minor mods. Even ran the stock dual point distributor. No Chrysler wedge could do that, that I am aware of.
The Hemi really had it..
MB
sorry but a a 12.5:1 440 w/ a good inatke and carb(s) would run just as well... That's more than just a few bolt ons and far from the hemi's "stock" build. I'd probably run less gear w/ a 440 thou
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Re: Hemi vs Wedge
[Re: hudsonhornet7x]
#1262577
07/15/12 01:54 PM
07/15/12 01:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,392
nielsville, minn.
quickd100
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,392
nielsville, minn.
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Quote:
WOW! It does not look like you are giving anything up down low in the rpm range. What is that engine like to drive on the street?
I might be able to let you know by this evening. I can't give you any numbers lower than 3600rpm, the dyno didn't want to hold the motor under 3600 as it was configured. Dave 
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They are all in a row on a wedge. Adjustment IS easy!! Getting in to do it and pulling/putting everything (intake setup and linkages, maybe exhaust manifolds) off/on IS what isn't EASY - on your back!! Still well worth the performance netted after it's all done!! 
