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Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: JohnRR] #1226014 05/05/12 11:46 AM 05/05/12 11:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A. roadhazard master
roadhazard master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.	Quote: Quote: Quote: Dwell ddirectly affects timing,. not if the dwell starts earlier. it can be manipulated electronically. i've checked several orange boxes, and one chrome box, to 6000 rpm- no sign of retardation (pardon the choice of words). they are all old boxes, though. i think my newest one is over ten years old. i think ballast resistor selection is important, too. iirc, there are two resistance values available? i have always used the higher resistance, and have had no ignition issues ever (aside from a ballast resistor failing at an extremely inopportune time). In the other thread about this subject it is claimed that there was a change made to them in 2000. So if your boxes are older than that it doesn't help with this question/problem. But thanks anyway. So I'm safe with my chrome box from 1989 Not to derail the thread but I've never been able to get a gold box to run at all

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: scatpacktom] #1226015 05/05/12 12:52 PM 05/05/12 12:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 862 Iowa State fan kilroy super stock
kilroy super stock Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 862 Iowa State fan	Quote: I have a Sun distributor machine. When I first got it I thought I wasn't using it properly or that there was something wrong with it. The timing would reach full advance at whatever rpm and then at high rpm it would loose a few degrees at max rpm. Talking with other distributor machine owners, they have found the same trends. I'd still like to hear a explanation for why this happens. You would think centrifugal forces wouldn't allow it That said I don't think I have ever seen 10 degrees only a few. I own a marquet dist machine and i always see a high end retard on dists also, have never figured out why. As far as box I have no idea if they retard. Sorry to high jack. 1973 Charger, former SE, former auto I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: kilroy] #1226016 05/05/12 01:38 PM 05/05/12 01:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	The MP boxes don't have any intelligence in them they just pick up a signal from the distributor and use it to shut the coil on and off. The way they convert the signal is the problem. When you get up around 4000 rpm the speed of the signal starts being a problem for the circuits to handle it. That is the reason they show spark timing retarding. More modern systems take that signal and process it and manipulate it to do what is needed,the MP boxes are just an old design. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1226017 05/05/12 06:41 PM 05/05/12 06:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,120 MassHole Central rtman OP super stock
rtman OP super stock Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,120 MassHole Central	Thanks, Keith. So are the Chrome box circuits a similar (read: old) design that will have the same processing problem?

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: rtman] #1226018 05/05/12 10:40 PM 05/05/12 10:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	RTman, The ones I have seen do the same thing,usually around 400 rpm. Different coils and pick up coils seem to make a difference on the rpm it happens in my testing,but only by a few hundred rpm either way. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: Dunnuck Racing] #1226019 05/06/12 01:12 AM 05/06/12 01:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can. 7 72demon416 pro stock
72demon416 pro stock 7 Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,496 Sask, Can.	Keith, do you have any experience with the gold boxes, to say whether they are any better or worse for dropping advance than the chrome? Thanks, Rick

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: 72demon416] #1226020 05/06/12 10:58 AM 05/06/12 10:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana Dunnuck Racing master
Dunnuck Racing master Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,300 Northern Indiana	No,the couple of gold boxes I bought about ten years ago could not be made to work. I tried a couple of cars,and went through the wiring diagrams in the MP manual to make sure it was right. That was when I gave up on MP boxes in my cars. Keith www.dunnuckracing.com

Re: Chrome Box EIM - Does it Retard Advance? [Re: scatpacktom] #1226021 05/06/12 11:50 AM 05/06/12 11:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,020 U.S.S.A.	Quote: I have a Sun distributor machine. When I first got it I thought I wasn't using it properly or that there was something wrong with it. The timing would reach full advance at whatever rpm and then at high rpm it would loose a few degrees at max rpm. Talking with other distributor machine owners, they have found the same trends. I'd still like to hear a explanation for why this happens. You would think centrifugal forces wouldn't allow it That said I don't think I have ever seen 10 degrees only a few. Tom do you remember what RPM were you seeing this happen at ?

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