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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221479
04/25/12 02:06 PM
04/25/12 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,066
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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Posts: 75,066
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
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How many threads does the instructions for the HS rockers call for ? One other issue you need to pay attention to is oil getting to the cup , some adjusters have to be in a certain spot for the oil to make it to the cup.
I feel like a scolded child 
It says between 0 and 2
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Many options to choose from but yes you need enough zinc
I think I may know a place its like a two hour drive roundtrip. If anyone has it, they would, Guy is from New Jersey and imports alot of stuff.
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therefore a myriad of other problems.
Seems a simple head swap has turned into a massive myriad of issues.
Not trying to make you feel like a scolded child .
It would be a simple head swap if you were putting on another set of open chamber iron heads.
I guess all you can do is hope for the best , run it for the one show it seems you are trying to make and order the correct size pushrods in the mean time .
How old is that oil you have, it may be fine?
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: JohnRR]
#1221480
04/25/12 02:42 PM
04/25/12 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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Oil is probably 5 years old..
I talked to Randy Jr @ Harland. He said anything over 4 visible threads and new pushrods have to be ordered. Just as you (John) mentioned with the thread count and measuring, he said that each thread is measured at .050" so If I have 4 threads showing I should try to get pushrods that are .150" longer just to keep one thread visible...
I just mounted the other side of the rocker assy. Going to see what I have as far as threads.
As for the zinc he said that Amsoil, Lucas, Joe Gibbs additives would work. He said I can run what I have for now and order a bottle and pour it in there just don't leave it for an extended period without it.
One question on the zinc though, I added "Prolong" years ago as the initial treatment and I have the booster bottle. Would that suffice as far as oil additive for the metal to metal friction? It was the hoo-hah years ago and its been sitting on my shelf waiting for another oil change to come along...don't laugh...The website says it contains no zinc, molys, graphite, or copper.
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221481
04/25/12 03:35 PM
04/25/12 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,066
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,066
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
One question on the zinc though, I added "Prolong" years ago as the initial treatment and I have the booster bottle. Would that suffice as far as oil additive for the metal to metal friction? It was the hoo-hah years ago and its been sitting on my shelf waiting for another oil change to come along...don't laugh...The website says it contains no zinc, molys, graphite, or copper.
Snake oil, as as the website says, no zinc , it is not going to do anything to cover what HS suggests.
Can you get Valvoline VR1 racing oil over there ?
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221482
04/25/12 03:45 PM
04/25/12 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Well I am pooched.
I put the engine to TDC and checked the intake valve on #2....The cup of the 9" pushrod was inside the Harland rocker arm. I thought I had an adjustable pushrod around here but its been a decade since I have seen it. I found an old 383 rod in a box and put it in the slot. Put the assembly back on and torqued it down. I adjusted the rocker arm ball screw just as the pushrod couldn't spin anymore. I removed the assembly and counted eight threads. So what I am assuming is a 383 rod (measured length is 41.1cm ball to end of cup) 41.1cm is 8.307 inches (My calipers only go up to 6" so I used a measuring tape)
8.307 + (7 * .050) = 8.657"
Seems awfully short doesnt it? Edelbrock wanted me to purchase 9.125" rods per the instruction manual
Now to go and see what is available in the 8.650 series with one end as a ball and the other as a cup
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: JohnRR]
#1221484
04/25/12 04:36 PM
04/25/12 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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unless my lifters are very tall
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221486
04/25/12 05:39 PM
04/25/12 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
Viol8r
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 780
Woodinville, WA
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Quote:
Well I am pooched.
I put the engine to TDC and checked the intake valve on #2....The cup of the 9" pushrod was inside the Harland rocker arm. I thought I had an adjustable pushrod around here but its been a decade since I have seen it. I found an old 383 rod in a box and put it in the slot. Put the assembly back on and torqued it down. I adjusted the rocker arm ball screw just as the pushrod couldn't spin anymore. I removed the assembly and counted eight threads. So what I am assuming is a 383 rod (measured length is 41.1cm ball to end of cup) 41.1cm is 8.307 inches (My calipers only go up to 6" so I used a measuring tape)
8.307 + (7 * .050) = 8.657"
Seems awfully short doesnt it? Edelbrock wanted me to purchase 9.125" rods per the instruction manual
Now to go and see what is available in the 8.650 series with one end as a ball and the other as a cup
9.125" is the correct length. The ball sits in the cup and the actually bottom of cup to ball length is around 8.950". That is what I use.....Hardened 5/16"
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Viol8r]
#1221487
04/25/12 06:21 PM
04/25/12 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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This is what happens when you stay on the car for 8-10 hours a day for 5 days...
Per the decal for adjusting the timing...it says to bring the motor to TDC...(conveniently my timing strip is ripped away on both sides of TDC but I can visibly see the timing mark in the balancer) and adjust the #2 intake / #8 exhaust.
Mind you I had the intake on because I figured that this is the way to do it since the decal can't be wrong. I am sitting here looking at measurements and the cam lobes....at TDC my #2 intake lifter is at the top of the lobe...well of course I have 8 threads showing....the valve is supposed to be opening at this point. Tomorrow I will be doing it CAB's way...just like I always knew how to do it with my slant. I am hoping it works...
You may begin to make fun of me now..
&^%$ I am tired
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: ahy]
#1221490
04/26/12 08:46 AM
04/26/12 08:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Drivers side bank went without a hitch...I have threads showing on the ball.
Passenger side 6 of the 8 lifters were collapsed so I took them out and cleaned them out and pumped em back up again. I got #6 & #8 valves to finish off...then I'll run through with a remote trigger and listen for funny noises in the valve train, put the intake back on and hook up the fuel/spark/electrical system. Hopefully good news to report later on.
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221491
04/26/12 10:02 AM
04/26/12 10:02 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I got stumped one time following the cam chart. I could not figure out why at TDC, I was NOT on the base circle. I thought my cam timing was like 90 degrees off. I put a degree wheel on it and found I was dead on my installed centerline that the cam card called for. went back to setting pre-load, still not on the base circle that it said I should be when at TDC.
I had to spin the engine over a few times before I realized what was going on.
when you install the cam so that the timing dots are lined up, that is NOT TDC on compression! it's 180 out. to get it to TDC on compression, I had to rotate the engine 180, THEN the cam-lash chart started working for me!
make sure you're engine is at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke to start the adjusting.
Also, it sounds like you already installed the intake manifold? you can do it with the manifold on, but I really like doing it with the manifold off so I can see the cam lobes, the lifters, and the plunger in the lifter start to move.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: ahy]
#1221492
04/26/12 10:27 AM
04/26/12 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,066
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
For the high zinc oil, buy some diesel engine oil. Rotella T or local equivalent would be fine. A can of STP would be added insurance but not necessary unless you have real high spring pressures.
Diesels oils have gotten emissions friendly also over the past 4 or 5 years , there isn't as much zinc in them as there used to be .
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1221493
04/26/12 10:31 AM
04/26/12 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
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Quote:
I got stumped one time following the cam chart. I could not figure out why at TDC, I was NOT on the base circle. I thought my cam timing was like 90 degrees off. I put a degree wheel on it and found I was dead on my installed centerline that the cam card called for. went back to setting pre-load, still not on the base circle that it said I should be when at TDC.
I had to spin the engine over a few times before I realized what was going on.
when you install the cam so that the timing dots are lined up, that is NOT TDC on compression! it's 180 out. to get it to TDC on compression, I had to rotate the engine 180, THEN the cam-lash chart started working for me!
make sure you're engine is at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke to start the adjusting.
Also, it sounds like you already installed the intake manifold? you can do it with the manifold on, but I really like doing it with the manifold off so I can see the cam lobes, the lifters, and the plunger in the lifter start to move.
I started out with the cam card...I gave up on it. I popped the intake off last night in a fit of rage right before bed and saw what I did wrong. I just sealed the valley pan down now after having primed the lifter bay. I can't get the oil galleys to line up to prime the heads/rockers. I put it on TDC of the #1 exhaust stroke and decided that *hopefully* the rockers will get primed when I hook up the fuel system. I am squirting alot of fuel out without my carbs hooked up.
Progress Picture
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: Pyper70]
#1221494
04/26/12 12:36 PM
04/26/12 12:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Yes dot to dot (6 & 12 o'clock) #6 cyl not #1 is firing. On the preoiling, at that point (TDC #6 compression) one side (forget which) head should be oiling & backing up 3/4 turn on the crank to #8 firing the other side should be oiling
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1221495
04/26/12 12:48 PM
04/26/12 12:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,906
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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Athens, Greece
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You lost me Robert I hooked up the intake and cranked it....went around 7-8 times and all is well with the oil. Taking a break...I am 6'5 and hunched over a car is killing my back...Passenger side spark plugs are in. I am set at TDC on the harmonic/distributor. I have the drivers side spark bank to do and the throttle/kickdown linkage. top off with coolant and...well...thats it
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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Re: Adjusting valve lash
[Re: JohnRR]
#1221497
04/26/12 02:11 PM
04/26/12 02:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
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Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Quote:
For the high zinc oil, buy some diesel engine oil. Rotella T or local equivalent would be fine. A can of STP would be added insurance but not necessary unless you have real high spring pressures.
Diesels oils have gotten emissions friendly also over the past 4 or 5 years , there isn't as much zinc in them as there used to be .
My understanding also... they still have around 1200 PPM zinc which is sufficient for a normal FT application so a good option.
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When you stop learning its time to turn out the lights, life is a journey, enjoy the trip 
