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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203109
03/25/12 10:45 PM
03/25/12 10:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,431
USA
SSAAHemiFan
OP
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Quote:
The Lakewood scattershield does not work with a factory A-Body z-bar set-up, I found that out over 30 years ago. I had to find an Ansen scattershield that was specifically made for the A-Body. I assume you bought the repop Brewers z-bar, ball stud bracket, and spacer? All that stuff is 100% correct, it is the Lakewood that is designed for all other applications EXCEPT for an A-body big block. 
You pegged it  - I had 100% faith in the parts from Brewer's so I left them them out of the question to avoid any conflict.
I either have to move the pin on the bellhousing bracket 1" down and 1/4 forward and then shorten the linkage arm the same to keep the clutch fork linkage on the same plane OR move the mounting hole in the inner fender to match the "new" scattershield height.
Inner fender relocation would be the easiest but I don't know if that will affect the overall ratio ?
Anyone ever moved the inner fender location ?
Thank you both for confirming. It has been one of those things were I spent a ton of time measuring engine location, driveline angles and everything else trying to figure out what was going on.
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203110
03/25/12 11:30 PM
03/25/12 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Rhinotruck
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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I went out in the garage and took some pics of my factory 383 4-speed GTS and also some pics of the correct parts for a factory Hemi Dart from Jim Schild's book. I am not sure if they are identical or not since the text under the Hemi parts says they have a special raised pin and modified z-bar. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/25/12 11:31 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203111
03/25/12 11:32 PM
03/25/12 11:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Rhinotruck
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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More pics, on the factory bellhousing for the big block A-Body there are two mounting holes that the special bracket and spacer have two bolts that hold it on.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203112
03/25/12 11:33 PM
03/25/12 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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Ball stud and z-bar pic on the frame.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203114
03/25/12 11:35 PM
03/25/12 11:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Pic 2... I will get pics of the Ansen bellhousing tomorrow. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/25/12 11:36 PM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203115
03/26/12 12:06 AM
03/26/12 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,008
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
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Quote:
Quote:
The Lakewood scattershield does not work with a factory A-Body z-bar set-up, I found that out over 30 years ago. I had to find an Ansen scattershield that was specifically made for the A-Body. I assume you bought the repop Brewers z-bar, ball stud bracket, and spacer? All that stuff is 100% correct, it is the Lakewood that is designed for all other applications EXCEPT for an A-body big block.
You pegged it - I had 100% faith in the parts from Brewer's so I left them them out of the question to avoid any conflict.
I either have to move the pin on the bellhousing bracket 1" down and 1/4 forward and then shorten the linkage arm the same to keep the clutch fork linkage on the same plane OR move the mounting hole in the inner fender to match the "new" scattershield height.
Inner fender relocation would be the easiest but I don't know if that will affect the overall ratio ?
Anyone ever moved the inner fender location ?
Thank you both for confirming. It has been one of those things were I spent a ton of time measuring engine location, driveline angles and everything else trying to figure out what was going on.
I wouldn't move the inner fender location , make a bracket to move the ballstud .
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: JohnRR]
#1203116
03/26/12 12:18 AM
03/26/12 12:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Since I was the first one to reproduce the ballstud bracket it sure looks like the Hemi bracket is indeed offset from the 383 piece, I will have to compare my blueprints to the one's in Schild's book. 
Last edited by Rhinodart; 03/26/12 12:20 AM.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: SSAAHemiFan]
#1203118
03/26/12 06:22 PM
03/26/12 06:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
Rhinotruck
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Rhinotruck
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Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Here are the Ansen bellhousing pics...
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203121
03/26/12 09:00 PM
03/26/12 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
64dodge572
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,285
Ohio
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Jim-
Something else to consider is that the 67 bell bracket is different looking than the 68-9. I also have what I believe to be an original modified Hemi bracket that was used in the 68 SS cars. I'll have to see if I can get dad to take a pic of all 3 together. Its also funny that the 2nd pic you posted out of the book shows a pic of the early 62-5 B fork not the later 702 part number like used in the BB A-body cars.
Dan
Brewers Performance Inc. 4-speed transmission and parts specialists PH 937-947-4416 or 937-698-4259 FAX 937-947-4419 www.brewersperformance.com
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: 64dodge572]
#1203122
03/26/12 09:37 PM
03/26/12 09:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
Rhinodart
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Rhinotruck
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Posts: 43,547
Round Lake Beach, Illinoisy
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Dan, I was intrigued by the B-Body fork too, I am going to have to look into it further. The bellhousing that is on Larry Griffith's original SS Dart is the one that says "steel" on the top and the clutch pan and has the casting number 2463230 on the bell and 2206044 on the pan. I have seen these before but are as rare as hens teeth! Here are pics of the bell from Schild's book.
The funny thing about science is that if you change one miniscule parameter you change the entire outcome to the way you want it.
JB Rhinehart, Realist
A-Body's RULE!
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Re: A-Body BB or Hemi Z-Bar Question
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1203124
03/28/12 09:22 PM
03/28/12 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,431
USA
SSAAHemiFan
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
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USA
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I had the 65 B fork in my car for mockup using a Lakewood shield and I believe (hope?) the offset is different as the fork hits before full travel is realized - I am going to try a later B-fork next. KIller part of the deal is my Dad HAD one of he Hemi "STEEL" bellhousings that I now need but he sold it to Atwell at one of the Motech swap meets ages ago .  It was one of those times it would have been nice to own a crystal ball or time machine, I'm sure most guys here have been there before. It would have been "wasted" for use in my car but it is nice to know he probably used it in a original car as it should be.
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You will be making some parts if you want it to work correctly. 
