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Help Me Build My 440... #1186979
02/27/12 12:11 AM
02/27/12 12:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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This is not one of those, build me one from scratch questions. I'll be very specific. I want to build my 440 using some good existing parts that I already have but I don't want to sacrifice and do a hodge-podge build. I am building a street car and I want it to idle with a slight lope, lots of torque and likely never see over 5500 RPM. I'll share my parts list of what I have already. I'll ditch parts if need be but I want to save as much as possible.

The Car:
1970 Superbee, manual brakes, power steering, air conditioning, 727TF, 3.91 SG, SS springs stock interior and body. Curb weight should be about stock. I forget the tire size but I will be keeping very close to factory height BFG's on 15" rims.

Engine:
1972 440, .040 overbore, forged crank .010, closed chambered heads, ported and polished, .218 intake, .181 exhaust, Harland Sharp roller rockers, Eddy Performer RPM intake, TTI ceramic coated headers, 2" primary. LY rods. Milodon 8 qt pan and windage tray, hemi oil pick up tube.

Goal:
High octane pump gas, Idle between 650 and 850, 475+ HP, 550+ torque, Peak RPM 5500.

I understand that the closed chambered heads are a limiting factor but this is what I have. I need carburetor, piston, cam, torque converter and whatever else completes the picture. The headers are fresh but they are the old CPPA headers and I doubt I could get decent $$$ for them to step up to the newer 1 7/8" TTi units unless I could find a trade. At some point I will likely do Eddy heads. Not now.

Here's the wild card. I also have a 400 block and 451 stroker crank that I could use any and all of these parts with (minus intake). I could have that block machined and go that direction.

So, go crazy! What would you do? This is not hypothetical, guys. This car will be rolling this summer. I am completely green at this and need your help.

Lindy


I’m listening.
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1186980
02/27/12 12:36 AM
02/27/12 12:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
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Cleveland
Dump the CPPA headers
Grab a Firecore Distributor, coil , and wires.
Keep the 440. Get a 590 cam. Buy somebodies used carb in the race section. No need for new. You are there easily.


Join the quickest team in motorsports. Team FireCore. CustomWiresets.com
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: sunroofgtx] #1186981
02/27/12 12:48 AM
02/27/12 12:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Piston id use a kb icon flat top, carb a holley 750, intake a performer rpm, cam id use a comp xe274. Converter id use a 3k stall.

Sunroof gtx, He said he wants power to peak at 5500, not start at 5500
A 590 cam is not what he needs.

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: sunroofgtx] #1186982
02/27/12 12:49 AM
02/27/12 12:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Rich,

I need a lot more help. What size carb? Cam spec's? Torque converter? Pistons?

I'll likely be seeing you on the firecore stuff this summer.

Lindy


I’m listening.
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: viperblue72] #1186983
02/27/12 12:52 AM
02/27/12 12:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Quote:

Piston id use a kb icon flat top, carb a holley 750, intake a performer rpm, cam id use a comp xe274. Converter id use a 3k stall.

Sunroof gtx, He said he wants power to peak at 5500, not start at 5500
A 590 cam is not what he needs.




Chad, what comp on the piston?

Lindy


I’m listening.
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: viperblue72] #1186984
02/27/12 01:13 AM
02/27/12 01:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,129
Cleveland
sunroofgtx Offline
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Quote:

Piston id use a kb icon flat top, carb a holley 750, intake a performer rpm, cam id use a comp xe274. Converter id use a 3k stall.

Sunroof gtx, He said he wants power to peak at 5500, not start at 5500
A 590 cam is not what he needs.




Oh shoot. Sorry. Misread that. I thought that was steep for what he wanted..LOL


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Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: sunroofgtx] #1186985
02/27/12 02:03 AM
02/27/12 02:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Well with a flat top near zero deck, you will be at about 10.5 to 1 with a closed chamber 78cc.
That is higher than I would recommend with a 274 cam. But with a 284 cam I think it would work.
The kb icon 9953 piston is only 403.95 at summit. It would be pushing it with your heads, but would be perfect with edelbrocks.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-IC9953-040/


Ill see if I can find something that would net 9.5 to 1 with your heads.

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: viperblue72] #1186986
02/27/12 02:21 AM
02/27/12 02:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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Now if it were me I missed where you said that part.
In that case, Id Go with the flat tops, slap in a mp 528 cam.
Headers are big but you have them. But with this you have a nice running 440. Idle decent, pull a little higher then 5500 and give you closer to 500 horsepower.

Now about those manual brakes

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1186987
02/27/12 04:29 AM
02/27/12 04:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Shoot for 9.0 to 1 to 9.75 to 1 compression ratio with good quench, I'd look for a good Holley 850 D.P. or if you can find a good used Holley 950 HP buy it The 950 HP are smaller in CFM than the 850 D.P. are but they work real well As far as the cam I would(and do ) use the Comp Cams XE285HL grind installed between 108 to 105 intake lobe center. Make sure and get the compression ratio correct the first time, don't guess at it Better yet hold off on the pistons and buy the Eddy RPM heads first and then buy pistons to make between 10.0 to 1 and 10.75 to 1 comp. ratio I've built a bunch of 440 motors like yours with 906 open chamber heads and never had a problem making 500+ HP between 5000 RPM and 5900 RPM depending on which cam was used and 550 Ft lbs on CA pump gas another really good choice is used the 400 block and have the 440 crankshaft rod journals offset ground to 3.90 stroke, have the mains and counterweights cut down for the 400 block and make a storming 464+ C.I. motor, tell all your freinds and enemy that it is a 383 bored out As far as the converter make the motor first and then buy a really good converter, not a cheap rebuilt standard autmotive trans shop one , to match the motor I like and use Continental Converters in Los Angles, CA

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 03/01/12 03:28 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Cab_Burge] #1186988
02/27/12 12:29 PM
02/27/12 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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What closed chamber heads are they ? Do you know the CC's of them ? My old 440 combo was a basic build. It had iron 906 heads with 10.0 comp using KB pistons. Had the MP .557 cam and Isky iron ductile rockers. I had the Holley Street Dominator but the RPM is a good intake if it will fit under your hood. Used an 850 Holley DP and Hedman 1-3/4 headers. Converter was a Dynamic 9.5 that would flash about 4200 and it had 4.30's with a 30" tire. In my 3700 lb 63 Sport Fury it ran a best of 11.49 @ 116 and drove super nice. It was a nice drive anywhere 11 second combo. Ron

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: viperblue72] #1186989
03/01/12 05:52 AM
03/01/12 05:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
Canada
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Albert222 Offline
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Thanks for your immense information that you shared to all and i am looking forward for your great knowledge.

Auto Transport - http://www.eztransportcorp.com

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Cab_Burge] #1186990
03/02/12 06:27 PM
03/02/12 06:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
I Live Here
Big Bad Bee  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Quote:

Shoot for 9.0 to 1 to 9.75 to 1 compression ratio with good quench, I'd look for a good Holley 850 D.P. or if you can find a good used Holley 950 HP buy it The 950 HP are smaller in CFM than the 850 D.P. are but they work real well As far as the cam I would(and do ) use the Comp Cams XE285HL grind installed between 108 to 105 intake lobe center. Make sure and get the compression ratio correct the first time, don't guess at it Better yet hold off on the pistons and buy the Eddy RPM heads first and then buy pistons to make between 10.0 to 1 and 10.75 to 1 comp. ratio I've built a bunch of 440 motors like yours with 906 open chamber heads and never had a problem making 500+ HP between 5000 RPM and 5900 RPM depending on which cam was used and 550 Ft lbs on CA pump gas another really good choice is used the 400 block and have the 440 crankshaft rod journals offset ground to 3.90 stroke, have the mains and counterweights cut down for the 400 block and make a storming 464+ C.I. motor, tell all your freinds and enemy that it is a 383 bored out As far as the converter make the motor first and then buy a really good converter, not a cheap rebuilt standard autmotive trans shop one , to match the motor I like and use Continental Converters in Los Angles, CA




Sorry I didn't chime back in, fellas. Great information. It sounds like I need to start moving parts. Those heads are I BELIEVE 452's They have had extensive bowl work done but I need to get them checked for CC. I also have a pair of open chamber heads but they haven't been worked yet. Before I would spend more money having those done, I would just sell all of it and go buy eddy heads. It's just that the closed chambered heads just need cleaning and they are ready to go, although I don't know how big a cam my springs are rated for.

I'll have to start considering how much performance I want to sacrifice to get the car on the road sooner.

Cab Burge, What size headers would you recommend with the combo you suggested?

Again, thanks everyone.


I’m listening.
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1186991
03/02/12 10:21 PM
03/02/12 10:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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452 heads are an open chamber. If that is what you have, any flat top near zero deck will net about 9.5 to 1 which is perfect. I don't know what cab thinks about the headers, but I bet he would recommend a 1 7/8.

Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1186992
03/03/12 12:06 AM
03/03/12 12:06 AM
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Posts: 43,173
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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With the 3.91 stroke in either the 400 block or the 440 block I would use the CPPA headers you have, I believe there 2.0 inch If not and they are 1 7/8 inch use them I have used both 1 7/8 and 2.0 inch in my Duster with the same exhaust sytem and saw no noticeable or measureable differences at the track or in the car


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Help Me Build My 440... [Re: Cab_Burge] #1186993
03/04/12 03:37 AM
03/04/12 03:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 10,938
Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline OP
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Cab and Viper, I guessed at the head numbers. The heads are 516's.


And very good news. I measured the tubes on those headers. They're definitely 1 7/8" So that's got me smiling. I'm going to see if I can get those heads measured for volume. I'll get back to you guys with the results and see what you recommend for a piston.

What do you guys think about a Thermo-Quad for this combo? I have a rebuilt one ready to use.

Lindy


I’m listening.






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