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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: Challenger 1]
#1186610
02/29/12 02:25 PM
02/29/12 02:25 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
Can't you run the engine without valve covers and listen with a peice of plastic tubing?
Is it possible to grab each push rod while it's running to see if anything changes? 
I've been running it without the valve covers on. got a nice puddle of oil on the floor now from all the splash/splatter that flings off! haven't tried grabbing a pushrod though, I'm afraid to get TOO close to the moving parts and getting a body part pinched, cut, smashed, etc.
and it's hard to hold plastic tubing, screw driver, etc. up to a moving part to listen for the noise 
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1186612
02/29/12 03:37 PM
02/29/12 03:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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I haven't really fully checked all that out yet, but I know that statically, the exhaust doesn't touch anything. I've laid under it with it running to feel for exhaust leaks in the welds, so I had my hands around the pipes with it running, but I wasn't looking for contact/rubbing anywhere.
I can check that again as well, but I'm pretty sure that it's coming from inside the engine somewhere.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: Moparnut426]
#1186614
02/29/12 07:51 PM
02/29/12 07:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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man, thought I found it...but didn't.
passenger side header, the flange around the collector is up against the frame. hard.
loosened the header, slipped cardboard in there, fired it up. no noise.
wanted to duplicate the problem before calling it good.
loosened header again, removed cardboard, fired it up, and the chirping came back.
ok, so far so good...but paid close attention to that spot, and it really didn't sound like it was coming from there.
loosened header, slipped cardboard back in, and...chirping is still there.
all I proved with this, is that the noise is not there on cold fire up, but comes back when the engine gets some heat into it.
tried to kill a cylinder at a time with the plug out and one valve "in-op" by remving rocker and pushrod, but all that did was spray oil mist everhwere as the piston came up on every stroke.
might try again leaving the plug in this time, my only concern was pushing all that compression down past the rings without the exhaust vavle opening to bleed it off...maybe that's not actually going to happen, and it's no different than the normal compression stroke? (injector unhooked so it's not spraying fuel or firing at all)
used a rubber hose and listened EVERYWHERE I could stick that damn thing, and all I could hear through that was the "ocean sound" from sea-shells, and the faint "tippity-tappity" of the engine turning over. could not pick up a squeek through the hose from anywhere.
I'm trying to avoid pulling the intake, and I'd love to find the source of the sound before I pull stuff off/apart, but I'm running out of ideas here.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: MoparDonny]
#1186618
03/01/12 05:39 PM
03/01/12 05:39 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
I know you mentioned you were going to, but did you end up checking the Crank sensor at the back of the block? Had many FWD's do that after putting them back in. They usually sound different than that but It would suck to pull it all apart for something on the outside. I wouldn't trust just looking at the flexplate for evidence, see if you can move it slightly away from the flexplate. The noise sounds way to constant to be a vlave guide or pushrod at that rpm.
Just ideas.
I did check it and there was no signs of rubbing anywhere on it.
However,
I THINK I FOUND IT!!
#5 exhaust lifter...
tell me what you think...
http://youtu.be/AyMNnLeK17k
This thing had me about to go crazy today...I started it up and it ran for a good solid 10 minutes, with no squeak at all. I thought "that's weird...did it just go away?"
I was about to take it out and drive it around because after everything was good and hot, and several starts of the engine, I couldn't hear anything.
THEN it came back again.
ran the valves again on the passenger side, no change.
started to kill cylinders on the driver side and got to #5 and it went away.
a whole new set of lifters are on the way, and I'm not running this anymore before that #5 lifter drops the roller and bounces metal off the cam, crank, rods, etc.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1186623
03/01/12 08:34 PM
03/01/12 08:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
CHAPPER
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master
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,410
Belpre,Ohio
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Haven't commented on your problem,,just looking at the responses from time to time. Never actually had this problem or heard the noise in a 'running' engine,,but,,did have a friend have me come listen to an engine, on the assembly stand, no heads on it, and it made a squeeking sound once in awhile while being turned over by hand. I diagnosed it as a broken ring upon assembly. Turned out to be correct. Maybe when you are pulling plug wires and taking the pressure off that cylinder,,it is allowing the noise of a ring scrapeing the cylinder wall to go away..?? Maybe a leak-down test would show something ?? Just a thought...GOOD LUCK with your problem.  
If you like drag racing, support your local track.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1186624
03/01/12 09:47 PM
03/01/12 09:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
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Canton, Ohio
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In the Vid the #5 intake rocker is Barely moving compared to all the other rockers. That lobe may be shot as well. Unless its some kind of optical illusion. Edit, Well , unless you disabled the intake rocker instead of pulling the plug wire to test that CYL.
Last edited by Sport440; 03/01/12 09:56 PM.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: Sport440]
#1186626
03/01/12 10:28 PM
03/01/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
In the Vid the #5 intake rocker is Barely moving compared to all the other rockers. That lobe may be shot as well. Unless its some kind of optical illusion.
Edit, Well , unless you disabled the intake rocker instead of pulling the plug wire to test that CYL.
yup, #5 intake was backed off as well.
what I did, was I left the spark plug and plug installed, but unplugged the fuel injector so I wasn't spraying fuel at a cylinder I was "testing" I backed the intake rockers off first, then backed off the exhaust. On #5, once I heard the sound go away with the exhaust, I started playing with it, tightened it up, loosened it, tightened it, loosened it. every time it was tight with the valve working, the squeak was there. as soon as the exhaust valve was backed off, the sound went away.
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: cudaboy]
#1186627
03/01/12 10:30 PM
03/01/12 10:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
I don't know, it still sounds like a belt noise to me. Did you remove the serpentine belt to see if that was it?????????
Dennis
LOL...
Oh man, why didn't I think of that?! (runs out to garage to remove belt)
I'd have to go back and look at who said it again, I don't remember now, but the 3rd time someone said "look at the belt, it's probably the belt" when I clearly said in the opening post that I already tried that, and then said it again when someone missed the first post....I started to wonder if anyone knew how to read after the 3rd suggestion to remove the belt!
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Re: ever hear a sound like this?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1186629
03/01/12 10:40 PM
03/01/12 10:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Quote:
Haven't commented on your problem,,just looking at the responses from time to time. Never actually had this problem or heard the noise in a 'running' engine,,but,,did have a friend have me come listen to an engine, on the assembly stand, no heads on it, and it made a squeeking sound once in awhile while being turned over by hand. I diagnosed it as a broken ring upon assembly. Turned out to be correct. Maybe when you are pulling plug wires and taking the pressure off that cylinder,,it is allowing the noise of a ring scrapeing the cylinder wall to go away..?? Maybe a leak-down test would show something ?? Just a thought...GOOD LUCK with your problem.
Thanks. I guess it couldn't hurt to run a compression and leak down test on that cylinder, but I'm not sure that holding the exhaust valve closed would take any pressure off the rings...
the sound was present with engine running and all 8 cylinders firing.
sound was present with engine running and #5 fuel injector unplugged, effectively creating a "dead" cylinder.
sound was still present after backing off the intake rocker, which I imagine, would have taken off ALL pressure from the rings, and actually put them into a massive negative pressure like when you downshift a manual transmission with a closed throttle.
sound finally went away once the intake rocker was backed off and the intake valve not moving, and the exhaust valve backed off and not moving. came back with just the exhaust rocker tightened back down, again, no fuel, no air just a "dead cylinder" with the exhaust valve opening once every 4 strokes.
but since I'll be pulling the intake, I might as well do a quick compression test, and a leak down.
by the way, on a leak down, does a piston really have to be at TDC, or can you just keep the valves closed by removing the rocker arms?
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