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Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: bobs66440] #1179442
02/19/12 06:00 PM
02/19/12 06:00 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
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i use wallace racing`s calculator. i have my own formula to calculate dcr and both give me 7.12 or 7.13 dcr. input numbers to plug into the wallace racing calculator are bore=4.35, stroke=3.75, rod length=6.768, static cr=9.35, altitude=0, boost=0, 8cylinders and intake closing point=70*. it should give you the same results as mine. you can use their calculators they are accurate and very powerful.


fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: 7e5dartsport] #1179443
02/19/12 07:30 PM
02/19/12 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Pretty sure wallace uses .050 numbers it's the same as this

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

Static compression ratio of 9.35:1.
Effective stroke is 3.39 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.57:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 173.77 PSI.
Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of 0 PSI is 8.57 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 210

I have a detailed dyno program and it gives the same cranking compression!

Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: Dodgem] #1179444
02/19/12 07:48 PM
02/19/12 07:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:

Pretty sure wallace uses .050 numbers it's the same as this

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/comprAdvHD.htm

Static compression ratio of 9.35:1.
Effective stroke is 3.39 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 8.57:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 173.77 PSI.
Your dynamic boost compression ratio, reflecting static c.r., cam timing, altitude, and boost of 0 PSI is 8.57 :1.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 210

I have a detailed dyno program and it gives the same cranking compression!



Hmmm, Using that calculator, I got the same result as you, except as I understand it, you are supposed to add about 30* (which would make it 70* seated) to the Intake Closing to correct for the @.050 number because the chamber doesn't start building pressure until the valve is fully seated. Maybe that calculator automatically adjusts for that?

I used the one listed DCR Calculator with VB6 Runtime files at the bottom of the page on this site.

http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html

It calculates dynamic stroke length, cam timing / overlap and static and dynamic compression, but it uses seat to seat (advertised) timing, not @.050 specs. Maybe try that one and see what you think? I keep coming up with 7.054:1. This is very confusing.


Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: bobs66440] #1179445
02/19/12 11:47 PM
02/19/12 11:47 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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Who said @.050 is @.050!

Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: Dodgem] #1179446
02/20/12 12:01 AM
02/20/12 12:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:

Who said @.050 is @.050!


I don't understand the question...

Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: Dodgem] #1179447
02/20/12 12:04 AM
02/20/12 12:04 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 62
montreal, quebec,canada
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7e5dartsport Offline
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bob, i used cochises dcr calculator only to find out the dcr is 7.127. results are rd=1.762, rr=.641, pr1=6.535, pr2=5.894, dst=2.749. calculating compression ratio with dst instead of stroke gives the afformentioned dcr results. those thinking you should use .050 measurements instead of advertised ones should read your link to cochise`s dcr calculation. compare these results with yours to find out where you made a mistake. thanks, serge.


fully legal sounds the same as full illegal...
Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: 7e5dartsport] #1179448
02/20/12 12:13 AM
02/20/12 12:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Quote:

i use wallace racing`s calculator. i have my own formula to calculate dcr and both give me 7.12 or 7.13 dcr. input numbers to plug into the wallace racing calculator are bore=4.35, stroke=3.75, rod length=6.768, static cr=9.35, altitude=0, boost=0, 8cylinders and intake closing point=70*. it should give you the same results as mine.



You're right. I was giving a 7.768 rod length by mistake. Sorry.

Thanks for your help.

Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: bobs66440] #1179449
02/20/12 12:36 AM
02/20/12 12:36 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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Dynamic compression ratio is just a re-calculation of compression ratio using the piston position at the point the intake valve closes, and technically it would be the point where reversion out of the cylinder stops. Because DCR is used to estimate cranking cylinder pressure, and cranking speed is very slow, the 0.006" "Advertised" duration number is used to estimate the intake valve closing point.
If you had zero lash and 1.5:1 rocker arms (and no deflection of parts) the valve would only be open 0.009" with 0.006" lobe lift. This 0.009" is what the calculation is estimating to be the point where the valve "looks" closed and has captured the newly calculated cylinder volume of air/fuel at the atmospheric pressure. With a solid cam the valve lash would have to be factored in. The equation then takes the new Dynamic compression ratio DCR raised to the power 1.2 (the 1.2 is an estimate of the polytropic heat ratio of compressing the air/fuel mixture), and multiplies it by the atmospheric pressure to get absolute chamber pressure at TDC (DCR^1.2 * 14.7.) Gauge pressure is just the absolute pressure - the reference atmosphere pressure.
In theory (with no heat lost to the engine) the gas temperature would also be increased by the DCR. That is why having cool incomming air/fuel helps lower the chance of detonation, because that temp is multiplied by the DCR. But also the heat is dissipated into the surrounding engine parts, so if the engine temp is lowered it also helps reduce detonation. On the flip side, on combustion a cooler engine also absorbs more heat energy so it is thermally less efficient.
The 0.050" duration numbers are not used for DCR calculation because the valve would be too far open (0.075") to be the capture point (at cranking speed.)

Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: bobs66440] #1179450
02/20/12 10:20 AM
02/20/12 10:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:

Quote:

Who said @.050 is @.050!


I don't understand the question...




When a calculator say input the @ .050 number that's all you do and go on. If you put your numbers in @ .050 my dyno program that also gives the cranking compression give the same number.
you "DON'T" decide to make up your own math and add it into the mix.
I have lots of experience and within a couple pounds the boost compression calculator is real close to real world numbers i get. And my dyno program which also gives octane requirements always agrees.

Don't over think this just go on with your life!

at 1000 feet not sure where you live but your looking at 160 to 170 lb cranking compression safe with an aluminum head probably right at 165 anyway once you check it post it!

Last edited by Dodgem; 02/20/12 10:27 AM.
Re: 440 Dynamic Compression and Pump Gas [Re: Dodgem] #1179451
02/20/12 10:40 AM
02/20/12 10:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Who said @.050 is @.050!


I don't understand the question...




When a calculator say input the @ .050 number that's all you do and go on. If you put your numbers in @ .050 my dyno program that also gives the cranking compression give the same number.
you "DON'T" decide to make up your own math and add it into the mix.
I have lots of experience and within a couple pounds the boost compression calculator is real close to real world numbers i get. And my dyno program which also gives octane requirements always agrees.

Don't over think this just go on with your life!

at 1000 feet not sure where you live but your looking at 160 to 170 lb cranking compression safe with an aluminum head probably right at 165 anyway once you check it post it!


Ok, that clears it up, thanks!

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