|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: can.al]
#1170273
02/01/12 11:44 PM
02/01/12 11:44 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
|
Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
|
slider single piston calipers (cheap/troublefree). '76 A body or FMJ for as said the 2.75" piston. Get the caliper to match your hose location plus want the caliper mounted on the opposite side of the spindle that the hard line frame tab is on so the flex hose goes across
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: dogdays]
#1170276
02/02/12 01:09 PM
02/02/12 01:09 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
9" drums will stop it also, my real question is how much better if any are the 4 piston ones? I am planning on putting a really big small block in it with high gears for the open roads around here and I may need to stop in a hurry when a heard of antelope cross the road. If the difference is very tiny then I will probably go with the single piston one but if there is a significant difference I will deal with the hassles of hard to find stuff.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1170277
02/02/12 10:13 PM
02/02/12 10:13 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
|
I've had to bring both down from freeway speeds (well, 75 or so). I think the four piston, when right are better, but not enough to negate the wheel choice options and overall cost. With that said, we have late discs on my sons' big block/four speed a-bodies and we've also had K-H discs on my son's 383/4sp autocrosser Barracuda and other cars. They both work well.
I know this sounds like I'm not definite, but my reasoning for the late model discs was strictly for wheel choice. If it was easy to go 4.5" pattern on the K-H rotors, then all my cars would have them......
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: astjp2]
#1170281
02/03/12 01:54 AM
02/03/12 01:54 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
I have both set ups, actually 3 single piston set ups and one KH so cost is not gonna be much different. In your pics of the home made brakes it looks like you have a lot of wasted rotor surface area to me 
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: dogdays]
#1170284
02/03/12 01:42 PM
02/03/12 01:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
I have crushed a bunch of them crown vics and they are no where near 5000 lbs
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: ahy]
#1170285
02/03/12 02:56 PM
02/03/12 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,012
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,012
U.S.S.A.
|
Quote:
The Kelsey Hayes are more difficult and expensive to maintain. I'd go single piston.
Quote:
If you need more braking than the single can provide I'd go aftermarket. The Kelsey multi piston may be just a bit better than the single piston but a lot more expensive. Might as well spend the extra money on Dr Diff's setup. The stock setup with good semi-mettalic pads has a lot of stopping power.
Sounds like you are basing your choice on cost and not actual performance , he said he already have the KH setup so cost osn't a factor in his case.
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1170286
02/03/12 04:26 PM
02/03/12 04:26 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
astjp2
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,785
Utah and Alaska
|
No but the ford explorer is supposed to be 5000 GVW and that is what I am using for the calipers and master. Most people dont know that the explorer and Grand Cherokee use the same brakes, the parts interchange, so the availability to get them at the salvage yard is higher than the crown Vic. I went to a local yard and found 2 crown vics and 26 explorers/mountaineers plus several jeeps. The jeep rear brackes fit an 8 3/4 with minor trimming. For 80.00 I got all for calipers, rotors, mounts, and the Master/portortioning valve. Two new front bembo rotors for the crwon vic can be had for less than 200.00. I wanted to use the explorer rotors but he offset is wrong to fit the drum spindles. The availability of parts was the largest concern, besides cost. I can get any part at just about any part store. The parking brake cables will be made to the correct length by a local brake shop, cost is somewhere around 30.00 each. Another advantage is I did the whole conversion design by myself. It is more than adequate compared to the origianl discs. If someone want a pair of brackets, I can get them cut out when I get my steel ones done. That one bracket in the pic is only a mock up part made of 1/4" aluminum for fit. Quote:
I have crushed a bunch of them crown vics and they are no where near 5000 lbs
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1170287
02/04/12 10:41 AM
02/04/12 10:41 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
|
Quote:
Quote:
The Kelsey Hayes are more difficult and expensive to maintain. I'd go single piston.
Quote:
If you need more braking than the single can provide I'd go aftermarket. The Kelsey multi piston may be just a bit better than the single piston but a lot more expensive. Might as well spend the extra money on Dr Diff's setup. The stock setup with good semi-mettalic pads has a lot of stopping power.
Sounds like you are basing your choice on cost and not actual performance , he said he already have the KH setup so cost osn't a factor in his case.
I see you have a set or two to start with. If you drive the car much, it will need brake service. Track days and "canyon carving" can wear the brakes down pretty fast. When it comes time to re-new, the cost issue pops back up. Plus with the extra (and old) pistons, liklihood that one will leak or stick is high and the parts cost issue comes up again. I don't know what high po pads are available for the Kelsey. I know there are some good ones for the single piston (Firm Feel carbon mettalic for example). That's another consideration.
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: kilroy]
#1170289
02/04/12 01:26 PM
02/04/12 01:26 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
|
Which by the way the 12.44 is 5% longer than the large 11.75 brake and 18% longer then the stock 10.5 brake. Thats alot more leverage.
Last edited by kilroy; 02/04/12 01:30 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: kilroy]
#1170290
02/04/12 01:48 PM
02/04/12 01:48 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,825
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,825
Kirkland, Washington
|
Quote:
Which by the way the 12.44 is 5% longer than the large 11.75 brake and 18% longer then the stock 10.5 brake. Thats alot more leverage.
 Totally. The larger diameter means a LOT more leverage. Think about bicycles, two small, soft little pads worked wonders on a thin ribbon of steel that happened to be REALLY large in diameter compared to overall diameter of the wheel.
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1170292
02/05/12 03:05 AM
02/05/12 03:05 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
|
Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
|
I haven't checked so I could be totally wrong but I've heard pads are hard to come by for the K/H brakes, which means upgraded compounds probably don't exist... Where as the Bendix floating caliper type there are performance pads and the 11.75 rotor upgrade is an easy bolt on...
"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#1170293
02/05/12 04:39 AM
02/05/12 04:39 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
|
Quote:
I haven't checked so I could be totally wrong but I've heard pads are hard to come by for the K/H brakes, which means upgraded compounds probably don't exist... Where as the Bendix floating caliper type there are performance pads and the 11.75 rotor upgrade is an easy bolt on...
I haven't checked what is available, but since the pads are the same as 65-67 Mustangs, there should be some options............
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: Jim_Lusk]
#1170294
02/05/12 03:15 PM
02/05/12 03:15 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
Just checked the local o'reilleys and they have pads for the KH at $10.44 in stock and that is the only one they have availble "premium organic". They don't have any in stock at the store or warehouse for the single piston but there are several choices they can order from $11.39 up to $32.08 for semi metalic.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1170295
02/05/12 03:18 PM
02/05/12 03:18 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
|
KH rotor is $75.99 and the single one is $45.99
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: HotRodDave]
#1170296
02/06/12 02:14 PM
02/06/12 02:14 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
|
Town Car: 4,006–4,369 pounds (1,817–1,982 kg)[17][18]
Town Car L: 4,360–4,517 pounds (1,978–2,049 kg)[19][20
Crown Vics were a little lighter, at about 4100 - 4300 lb. Most cop cars carry around at a minimum, 500 lb of gear if not more. So I'm sure the designers of the CV police cars had brakes for panic stopping from high speeds with vehicle weight of 5000 lb. plus.
|
|
|
Re: Kelsey hayes or single piston calipers better ?
[Re: nomore65BelvJim]
#1170297
02/06/12 09:29 PM
02/06/12 09:29 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
|
Quote:
I have disliked the KH 4 piston calipers since the late 70's. They were always a major pain to rebuild and not have them blow. 
Yeah, on paper they are fine, but, back in the day, when I put 30-40K a year on them, I was lucky to get 6 months without a stuck piston. Silicone fluid helped, but there seemed to be no real fix. I regularly bought new ones at the dealer and rebuilt some of the old ones.
4-piston is generally thought of as "best", but the K-H's were just trouble. The Bendix (B-body), Budd (C-body), and all the later stuff is fine.
Plus, the K-Hs used tiny pads, thin rotors, etc.
Leave 'em for the platinum-resto guys!
Rick
|
|
|
|
|
