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Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? #1167425 01/28/12 09:03 PM 01/28/12 09:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	First, I am talking about the lightweight internal spring clip at the rear of the TM mount. Doesn't seem very robust. And doesn't it supply additionally a small amount of retention front to rear of the LCA? My guess was it's for safety, in a hard front end crash, TB just push rearward instead absorbing and releasing a lot of stored energy and entering interior of car? Well? Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: jcc] #1167426 01/28/12 09:16 PM 01/28/12 09:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt. H HotRodDave I Live Here
HotRodDave I Live Here H Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.	It would take a heck of a lot of energy to push a torsion bar through there with a clip still in it. Any way, most of the force in normal operation is torsional and pretty much none front to back. I have seen a couple cars riding around with the clips missing for who knows how many years and the bar does not try to move out. I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: HotRodDave] #1167427 01/29/12 01:20 AM 01/29/12 01:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA Kern Dog Striving for excellence
Kern Dog Striving for excellence Joined: Feb 2010 Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA	Quote: I have seen a couple cars riding around with the clips missing for who knows how many years and the bar does not try to move out. I agree here. It defies logic, but the T bars seem to stay put.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: Kern Dog] #1167428 01/29/12 01:23 AM 01/29/12 01:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows? 1_WILD_RT Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT Management Trainee Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 27,347 Today? Who Knows?	Doesn't defy logic at all... There is so much torsional load locking the bar in position & absolutely nothing trying to force it to move in a linear fashion.. Why would you expect it to move? "The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1167429 01/29/12 06:13 AM 01/29/12 06:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	Quote: Doesn't defy logic at all... There is so much torsional load locking the bar in position & absolutely nothing trying to force it to move in a linear fashion.. Why would you expect it to move? Under heavy braking when traveling in reverse, the brake strut attaches to lca at what is basically a fulcrum, and the spindle pushes forward, and the lca tb mount point pushes rearward, against what, just a clip? A 180-360 spin at speed should be a decent amount of loading. Still leaning towards it is an accident breakaway solution. Last edited by jcc; 01/29/12 10:29 AM. Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: jcc] #1167430 01/29/12 11:06 AM 01/29/12 11:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 904 Berwyn, IL M Moparlar super stock
Moparlar super stock M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 904 Berwyn, IL	Quote: Quote: Doesn't defy logic at all... There is so much torsional load locking the bar in position & absolutely nothing trying to force it to move in a linear fashion.. Why would you expect it to move? Under heavy braking when traveling in reverse, the brake strut attaches to lca at what is basically a fulcrum, and the spindle pushes forward, and the lca tb mount point pushes rearward, against what, just a clip? A 180-360 spin at speed should be a decent amount of loading. Still leaning towards it is an accident breakaway solution. I think you might be over thinking this. I have taken out many torsion bars that were not even close to the clip. So they had not pushed back and if they had there is no way they could have moved back forward. I am sure the strut rod has something to do with that also. Larry

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: jcc] #1167431 01/29/12 08:10 PM 01/29/12 08:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA R Rick_Ehrenberg top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg top fuel R Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,688 Marlboro, NY, USA	Later Mopars ('prox. '75-up) didn't even use a clip. (It was shown in the parts book, but most of the ones I've seen didn't have 'em. If the bar has moved back against the clip, you've got bigger problems! Rick

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1167432 01/30/12 06:40 AM 01/30/12 06:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 350 Houston I it's Bob enthusiast
it's Bob enthusiast I Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 350 Houston	The front end of the bar does not seat on anything, there is a lot of extra room in the LCA Tbar socket. And you think they are secured lightly? Only when you don't need to get one out do they practically fall out, when you NEED to get one out you can't get them to budge, even if you take everything off the front end.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: jcc] #1167433 01/30/12 03:47 PM 01/30/12 03:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX feets Senior Management
feets Senior Management Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 28,067 Irving, TX	Even with the front tires dangling in the air there is so much torsional load on the bars they will not come out. Think of the spring rate. Can you bench press the lower control arm while the t-bar is installed? All that pressure is mashing the hex ends into the sockets. You will not push them out. I've seen some cars that were in very serious collisions that didn't push the t-bars back. It's simply a non-issue. We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind. - Stu Harmon

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: feets] #1167434 01/30/12 06:46 PM 01/30/12 06:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,606 westerly, ri. usa 4 440lebaron top fuel
440lebaron top fuel 4 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,606 westerly, ri. usa	12 bolt clutch covers, 5/8 wheel studs, 8 bolt flex plates, billet rear end caps, 12 bolt ring gears, 1350 u-joints, grade 8 rim screws.......................... 4-1/4 fine thread bolts holding driveshaft to rear end!! all parts are sold as is, all parts are considered used no warranties or returns paypal/check/money order, shipping is from zip 02891, buyer pays paypal fees 24% IRS 1099A plus 3% of part price, check/money order preferred site is not monitored 24/7 there might be a delay in response

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: 440lebaron] #1167435 01/30/12 09:56 PM 01/30/12 09:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: 4-1/4 fine thread bolts holding driveshaft to rear end!! And that is all they do, hold the driveshaft to the rear end. They do not transmit any force. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: Supercuda] #1167436 01/30/12 11:10 PM 01/30/12 11:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	Reg TB's being secured, I remember seeing here? years ago a pic of a nascar? early mopar TB secured by a bolted plate, for reasons unknown to me. And reg overthinking the question, I've heard that before Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: jcc] #1167437 01/31/12 01:11 PM 01/31/12 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	MOPAR engineers were very good, they didn't add anything that wasn't necessary. They looked at the loading and as mentioned above they saw the bar wasn't going to go anywhere. So just a clip was OK. Crashworthiness? Get real. When the torsion bar front ends were designed the big safety features were door locks that wouldn't open in a crash. Seat belts were an option if you could get them at all. Steering columns would spear you. Crashworthiness was far from top of the list and if anyone gave it a thought it was to make the car more resistant to crumpling. Energy absorption and controlled deformation were decades in the future and really only occurred because of the government. R.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: dogdays] #1167438 01/31/12 01:36 PM 01/31/12 01:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana F Fury Fan master
Fury Fan master F Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 3,533 Indiana	And keep in mind that in an accident you'd need a perfectly linear force to move the LCA rearward by about 3" to push the T-bar back, any sideloading simply puts more force on the hex.

Re: Anybody know why TB's are so lightly secured? [Re: dogdays] #1167439 01/31/12 01:38 PM 01/31/12 01:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia J jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc OP If you can't dazzle em with diamonds.. J Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 22,696 Bitopia	Quote: Crashworthiness? Get real. When the torsion bar front ends were designed the big safety features were door locks that wouldn't open in a crash. Seat belts were an option if you could get them at all. Steering columns would spear you. Crashworthiness was far from top of the list and if anyone gave it a thought it was to make the car more resistant to crumpling. Energy absorption and controlled deformation were decades in the future and really only occurred because of the government. R. You left out the 7"x12"x3/4" Foam crash dash safety pad , and your point is well taken Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.

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