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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: Claw57]
#1150357
01/07/12 10:05 AM
01/07/12 10:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
Crazy68Dart
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,212
Canton, Ohio
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Passon and Brewers resell the Chuck's classic car kit. It is the least expensive setup out there I believe.
I am going to go with the American Powertrain kit which uses an adjustable MC mount so that the angle can be dialed in perfect. This kit is priced between the Keisler kit and the Chuck kit.
Nice thing about the slave cylinder is that all hydraulics are outside of the bell housing (i.e. don't have to pull trans to service clutch actuation, however it does take up more space. I am on the fence, the hydraulic throwout is more elegant and takes up less space so I am leaning towards that since headers, etc. Just hope I don't run into issues with the bearing that causes headaches so making sure the trans is parallel to flywheel and run out is in check to ensure proper operation.
383, Hemi 4-Speed, AlterKtion, D60
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: gtx6970]
#1150359
01/07/12 10:34 AM
01/07/12 10:34 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Cars owner last time I talked to him was thinking about taking it back out to re-install the stock stuff. as one of things he didn't care for he felt the hydraulic system would react fast enough to speed shift the car
TRUE!!! --because there's such a lag from when you hit the brakes till when your car actually starts to stop  
there is no delay on a hydraulic system, be it your brakes, or your clutch; other than in your own mind.
ever vehicle I've ever driven with a hydraulic clutch has been SUPER easy to powershift it while never lifting your right foot off the gas. from a 3 1/2 hp hyundai econo-car, to a 500+ hp Viper, and everything in between.
Once you have it installed, adjusted, bled, and working, there's no reason NOT to run a hydrualic system. now, sure, GETTING to that point can be quite a headache sometimes, and it may just be easier to use the factory linkage if you're working on a car/combo that HAS factory linkage as an option.
there's lots of reasons to run hydraulic clutch systems, and lots of reasons to run stock mechanical linkage. both has their advantages, both have their drawbacks. but "slow to actuate" is not one of them!
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: sshemi]
#1150361
01/07/12 02:03 PM
01/07/12 02:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
70chall440
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
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What do you mean by adj a hyd bearing?
If you install it correct you should never need to adj again
what I mean is setting it up initally. You are right, if you space it correctly, it should be good, however "if" is always precursor for not working at least as far as I am concerned. I am not bashing HYD TB's at all, however in my case since I am fabricating alot of components and didnt by a entire HYD TB kit, I have decided to go the way I have for simplicity and ease of fixing my mistakes. Initially, I tried to find a HYD TB to use, the 2 dedicated Mopar kits that I found were very expensive. I tried to find just a HYD TB figuring I could make or source the rest, however everything I found was for a Tremec, Ford or Chevy and I could not find just the HYD TB that would work on a A833. Therefore I elected to go the direction I have. In fact I picked up a Keisler TB at a swap meet from a guy who was using a Tremec trans in a Mopar. I wasnt comfortable with the spacing issue (more from inexperience with this setup) and the fact that the TB has about 1/8 - 1/4" travel. I understand with a diaphram PP, it doesnt need much but I just didnt like it, plus I would have to make a spacing system of some type since the Tremec and the A833 are different. I did have to open the inside of the TB a little with a carbide bit to slide over the A833 input shaft/collar. You can buy a HYD advertised for a Chevy for like $100, anything for a Mopar starts at $500 and goes up.
01 Viper GTS ACR
10 Challenger RT PCP 6spd
70 Challenger 440 6 pac
73 Cuda 416 Road Racer
70 Hemi Roadrunner
01 Ram 4x4 / 98 Ram 3500
91 Stealth RT
05 Durango Hemi
09 Caliber / 99 Dakota 4x4 / 52 Dodge B3B
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1150366
01/07/12 02:23 PM
01/07/12 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435
It's a dry heat
gtx6970
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,435
It's a dry heat
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Quote:
Quote:
Cars owner last time I talked to him was thinking about taking it back out to re-install the stock stuff. as one of things he didn't care for he felt the hydraulic system would react fast enough to speed shift the car
TRUE!!! --because there's such a lag from when you hit the brakes till when your car actually starts to stop
there is no delay on a hydraulic system, be it your brakes, or your clutch; other than in your own mind.
there's lots of reasons to run hydraulic clutch systems, and lots of reasons to run stock mechanical linkage. both has their advantages, both have their drawbacks. but "slow to actuate" is not one of them!
I put the car together. made initial adjustments per Amercian Powertrains tech adviser before the drivetrain install, and still had to re-adjust it after startup. With the headers and the scattershield it sucked bigtime.
I never even came close to a powershift of any kind and never had problems so I'm not certain other than what the cars owner said to me. But I took it he was not real happy with the system.
One of the problems I had was getting enough pedal travel to move the TO bearing to completely dis-engage the clutch. I do realize this may have been a line size issue and/or a cluch master cyl issue, I don't know. But I think all the parts were supplied by the same manufacture. So I assume it should work correctly but it didn't.
Based on the one car I did , I'll keep useing the stock stuff
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: gtx6970]
#1150368
01/07/12 02:58 PM
01/07/12 02:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cars owner last time I talked to him was thinking about taking it back out to re-install the stock stuff. as one of things he didn't care for he felt the hydraulic system would react fast enough to speed shift the car
TRUE!!! --because there's such a lag from when you hit the brakes till when your car actually starts to stop
there is no delay on a hydraulic system, be it your brakes, or your clutch; other than in your own mind.
there's lots of reasons to run hydraulic clutch systems, and lots of reasons to run stock mechanical linkage. both has their advantages, both have their drawbacks. but "slow to actuate" is not one of them!
I put the car together. made initial adjustments per Amercian Powertrains tech adviser before the drivetrain install, and still had to re-adjust it after startup. With the headers and the scattershield it sucked bigtime.
I never even came close to a powershift of any kind and never had problems so I'm not certain other than what the cars owner said to me. But I took it he was not real happy with the system.
One of the problems I had was getting enough pedal travel to move the TO bearing to completely dis-engage the clutch. I do realize this may have been a line size issue and/or a cluch master cyl issue, I don't know. But I think all the parts were supplied by the same manufacture. So I assume it should work correctly but it didn't.
Based on the one car I did , I'll keep useing the stock stuff
Could be 2 reasons there. Too much air gap between to bearing and clutch, so that all the travel is taken up before the clutch releases, or too small of a master cylinder with not enough fluid volume per stroke. Or if you're not getting a full stroke on the master. So, 3 reasons 
Same manufacture is one thing, a matched set/kit is another.
Fixes:
More spacer to take up "slop" between TO bearing and clutch
Larger master cylinder
Mount pushrod lower on the pedal to get more stroke on the master
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1150369
01/07/12 03:00 PM
01/07/12 03:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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OEM cars are easy, myomeres did all the hard part for you, but retrofitting to an old car or custom engine/trans cbo can be tricky until you get everything balanced and set-up
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: Claw57]
#1150371
01/08/12 01:28 AM
01/08/12 01:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Hydraulic can also be an alternative for those doing a conversion whose car doesn't have the factory z-bar frame bracket.
That's one of the reasons I went with the diy hydraulic system. My car was originally an auto, and since the stuff for my car interchanges with e-body cars, it all costs a million dollars. I was able to buy the hydraulic parts for a fraction of the price.
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#1150372
01/08/12 02:57 PM
01/08/12 02:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
70chall440
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
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my Cuda was an auto as well, I could have sourced all of the parts but I dont like or want the factory linkage. I went (or am going) HYD because I have had the factory stuff for years and wanted to try to engineer a system. This car is a road race/AAR clone street car, so I have done a lot of things I didnt have to do, but because I wanted to see if I could. This is the reason for the 4 link rear, EFI 6 pack, etc. Granted, this has coast me lots more than it had to, but it has been a fun road thus far. Still have a long way to go, but I am seeing dividends now. Hopefully I will be able to put the drive train into the car within the next 6 months or so. I really want to have it drivable by this summer, there is a new road course just built nearby and I am itching to take the car onto it. Of course, I can use the Viper but I am excited about the Cuda.
Last edited by 70chall440; 01/08/12 02:58 PM.
01 Viper GTS ACR
10 Challenger RT PCP 6spd
70 Challenger 440 6 pac
73 Cuda 416 Road Racer
70 Hemi Roadrunner
01 Ram 4x4 / 98 Ram 3500
91 Stealth RT
05 Durango Hemi
09 Caliber / 99 Dakota 4x4 / 52 Dodge B3B
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: 70chall440]
#1150373
01/08/12 03:26 PM
01/08/12 03:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
70chall440
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 181
Washington State
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Here is a picture of how I am running my MC.
01 Viper GTS ACR
10 Challenger RT PCP 6spd
70 Challenger 440 6 pac
73 Cuda 416 Road Racer
70 Hemi Roadrunner
01 Ram 4x4 / 98 Ram 3500
91 Stealth RT
05 Durango Hemi
09 Caliber / 99 Dakota 4x4 / 52 Dodge B3B
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: Commando1]
#1150375
01/09/12 10:23 AM
01/09/12 10:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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looks pretty!
I used stainless braided the whole length on my big block truck, but using hard line for part of the run would definitely allow "closer" routing around headers, without fear of it sagging and contacting the exhaust.
looking at yours reminds me, make sure your bleeder valve is higher than the TO bearing, and does NOT angle down at all.
I had a heck of a time when I tried to bleed mine because it was so short, that it angled down as it came out of the bell housing, and that downward angle made the fluid run out and air would bubble up into the hose, and I had a heck of a time getting the system bled to give a good firm pedal. I finally used a much longer bleed line, that allowed me to bring it back up the firewall so that the bleeder screw pointed up instead of horizontal or down, which prevented fluid from freeflowing out and air filling the hose.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: Hydraulic throwout bearing kits
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1150376
01/10/12 11:21 AM
01/10/12 11:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
looking at yours reminds me, make sure your bleeder valve is higher...
Thank you for bring that up because it is indeed important.
That is why you see the bleeder line secured only by a tie-wrap. When bleeding the system, snip the tie-wrap so as to move it. Afterwards, simply tie-wrap it again only to keep it from flopping around. 
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