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Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":

Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.

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There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.

1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.

2.Transformed by Hurst-No.

3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:

In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.

Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.

The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.

ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.

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Anecdotes are one thing, SOLID PROOF is quite another...

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Jim this is in regards to the pm,......there is the rad when it was there at Mike's

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Yep, it is too bad that someone "lost" the radiator...

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Hey but not to worry I just got another one (065) from a really great guy

THANKS Jim

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Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":

Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.

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There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.

1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.

2.Transformed by Hurst-No.

3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:

In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.

Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.

The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.

ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.

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Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.

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Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":

Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.

---

There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.

1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.

2.Transformed by Hurst-No.

3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:

In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.

Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.

The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.

ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.

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Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.

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This is the email reply my retired friend and 40+ year Dodge engineer got from his friend that knows as much or more than anyone of what went on back then.....(Sorry but I have to block out the names of the responders in their email to me with **** and ####)

The email reply to the question of how were the big block 383 and 440 A-bodies built in '69:

Hi! ****!

The big block A-Bodies were built in 3 years - 1967-68-69. Most were 383's - about 3000 per year. There were 980 A-Body 440's in 1969 - 640 Darts & 340 Baccacudas. There were 50 440-Darts built in 1968 (no Barracudas). To the best of my knowledge, Hurst did not build any of these cars. They were busy building 1968 Hemi SS cars in '68 and then built the '69 AMX SS cars in '69.

The original 383 A-Body in 1967 used a unique left front motor mount (2 or 3 bolts into the block) somewhat like the 426 Hemi mount. They also used log exhaust manifolds. In '68, they revised the mount so they could use the typical B-engine ears but the mount is unique to the A-Body. The '69 440 had a similar problem (as I remember) but they didn't want to use the '67 solution. I think they either used special exhaust manifolds or a spacer in the mount or both. Note - the '68 383 got better exhaust manifolds but the nice B-body ones didn't fit.

The question would be the '68 50-car build. they might have been built by Hurst but I thought they were done at the plant similar to police cars. There were a lot of things going on at this time because the cars didn't have to be certified. I think that Hurst was involved with Mr. Norm and may have built some to his specifications (not included in above discussion).

Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!

Thanks! #####

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So much wrong with that particular anecdote it isn't even funny. Take a look at gtsregistry.com for the real info. I have owned half-a-dozen 67 383 Dart GTS's and they never used "log" manifolds and the motor mount came from the 65 C-body 383 cars! Maybe I should finally put all the bad info to rest and write a true history of the big block A-Body's.

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Is this statement even close to being true that "only about 30 M-Code Darts still exist":

Assembled as a run-of-the-mill 383 car, then transformed into a 440-powered strip streak by the Hurst-Campbell Corporation , this Dodge is one of only 640 M-code Darts produced for the 1969 model year. Most of those big engine warriors were sold to drag racers who needed something tough to whip at the track and, as a result, Chrysler expert Galen Govier estimates that only 30 still exist.

---

There are so many things wrong with the above bolded remarks.

1. Not much "run of the mill" about a 383 A body and were available and sold through the 1969 model years but few were sold in comparison to a true "run of the mill" Dart or Cuda.

2.Transformed by Hurst-No.

3. There was a progression for big block A bodies and it goes like this:

In 1967 Mr. Norm complained that the competition had a leg up on Mopar in our A body size cars and asked for a 383-4 Dart. Factory said it would not fit in current configured body. Weeks later Norm shows up in Detroit with a 383-4 powered Dart they built @ the dealership. They show it to engineering and they start building them.

Next year Norm asks for competition for the 396/375 Chevy Nova. Factory says if you buy 50 or more they will build them. Norm agrees and replaces the GTS emblem with another S in place of the T and calls the car a Grand Spalding Sport.

The ONLY A bodies that Hurst had anything to do with were the 1968 Hemi Darts and Cudas because they had too many modification to perform on the assembly line, so unfinished cars were sent there for completion.

ALL 1969 M code A bodies were build completely @ the factory assembly plant. They did "begin" as a 383 car on PAPER just as the 1969 A12 cars did but never had a 383 ACTUALLY installed in the car. This is why BOTH of these "package cars" use an M in the V.I.N. Package cars were expected to be limited production and they did not create a new engine code for the V.I.N. and rather created an option package with an assigned sales code listing specific equipment INCLUDING the engine to identify what the actual engine is. The V.I.N. just shows "special engine" for the M code. You have to refer to the factory sales code for the car to determine what engine the car actually has.

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Sorry but that is partially incorrect.Hurst did do the conversion.Once again I was in the right place at the right time. I worked for a paint supply company that supplied Hurst with Ditzler auto paint and supplies.I saw them lined up back against the walls 2 rows with a 440 eng on a buck in front of each of the cars. I would guess about 40 cars at a time.IIRC all were complete running 383 cars.

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This is the email reply my retired friend and 40+ year Dodge engineer got from his friend that knows as much or more than anyone of what went on back then.....(Sorry but I have to block out the names of the responders in their email to me with **** and ####)

The email reply to the question of how were the big block 383 and 440 A-bodies built in '69:

Hi! ****!

The big block A-Bodies were built in 3 years - 1967-68-69. Most were 383's - about 3000 per year. There were 980 A-Body 440's in 1969 - 640 Darts & 340 Baccacudas. There were 50 440-Darts built in 1968 (no Barracudas). To the best of my knowledge, Hurst did not build any of these cars. They were busy building 1968 Hemi SS cars in '68 and then built the '69 AMX SS cars in '69.

The original 383 A-Body in 1967 used a unique left front motor mount (2 or 3 bolts into the block) somewhat like the 426 Hemi mount. They also used log exhaust manifolds. In '68, they revised the mount so they could use the typical B-engine ears but the mount is unique to the A-Body. The '69 440 had a similar problem (as I remember) but they didn't want to use the '67 solution. I think they either used special exhaust manifolds or a spacer in the mount or both. Note - the '68 383 got better exhaust manifolds but the nice B-body ones didn't fit.

The question would be the '68 50-car build. they might have been built by Hurst but I thought they were done at the plant similar to police cars. There were a lot of things going on at this time because the cars didn't have to be certified. I think that Hurst was involved with Mr. Norm and may have built some to his specifications (not included in above discussion).

Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!

Thanks! #####

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So much wrong with that particular anecdote it isn't even funny. Take a look at gtsregistry.com for the real info. I have owned half-a-dozen 67 383 Dart GTS's and they never used "log" manifolds and the motor mount came from the 65 C-body 383 cars! Maybe I should finally put all the bad info to rest and write a true history of the big block A-Body's.

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65 Chry driver side mount was one bolt on the front of block and 2 on the block.

Sorry - ****! The old memory can't seem to remember all these details!

My old memory is excellent. Built at Hurst.

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The old memory can't seem to remember all these details! My old memory is excellent.

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Now I am confused.