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"stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
#1133231
12/13/11 12:43 PM
12/13/11 12:43 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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What'd be the deciding info to decide which way to go w them and do they require offset rockers? Only $125 diff (ea/bare). I have 3/8 2.14/1.81 new valves & emailed them to see if the guides can handle that increase but no ans. I will call them when they open up out there. Thank you for your time.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133235
12/13/11 05:33 PM
12/13/11 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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If I have read what little I have on the super stealths correctly they are not finish ported ??? But you can't buy the stealths bare , unless that has changed.
Double R I went right to the source & called them & they told me both are avail bare with the "supers" being rough bare as in needing valve job/guide clearance set and alot of die grinder work and the supers (only) require offset rockers and the supers are only avail bare. $374.95/$497.50 for regular stealths. $499.95 for bare "super". Each.
They changed back to offering the stealths bare then because they had stopped doing that .
Now a question for you, what heads are your valves for ?
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1133236
12/13/11 06:51 PM
12/13/11 06:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
dogdays
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His valves have 3/8" (stone-age) stems. So to save a few dollars he's going to buy bare heads and ream the valve guides out to 0.375", at least that's what I am guessing. Can you tell I think it's a bad idea? Going to extra lengths to add mass to your valvetrain seems to be going backwards, also adding a larger protrusion in the valve bowl.
RR, if this is your plan I vote for the Stealths. They are about a finished product while EVERYTHING about the Supers is unfinished IIRC.
Well I went back to the website. It looks like they may have seats and guides installed. I'd hate to have to start installing seats and guides without a proper machine shop.
The difference between 11/32 and 3/8 is only 0.03125, certainly there's enough meat in the guides for that. They're probably standard 0.502" diameter guides pressed into a 0.500" bore. Back in the day the bore in the head was the same 0.500 for either ID guide. Don't sweat it.
One last thought: Better check if the SS heads use stock length valves!
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 12/13/11 07:02 PM.
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: dogdays]
#1133237
12/13/11 07:12 PM
12/13/11 07:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
One last thought: Better check if the SS heads use stock length valves!
R.
Do either of the heads use stock chrysler length valves ?
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: dogdays]
#1133238
12/13/11 08:14 PM
12/13/11 08:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133243
12/13/11 09:20 PM
12/13/11 09:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
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Quote:
alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
why not just use a set of 88cc edelbrocks? pistons will fit with little to no machining. sell the manely valves, and happy motoring. 
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133245
12/13/11 09:51 PM
12/13/11 09:51 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
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Maybe start with a performance goal and budget. If they don't match, adjust accordingly.
Yes my budget never matches my goal but yes point taken But if the regular stealths cannot handle the requirements of 535 cubes then it'd be smart to start with the supers & worry about paying for em later
The 535 does not have any requirements. You might have a performance expectation however. A 535 can run fine on factory original 516s. Stealths can easily make 600 hp.
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: superbee471]
#1133247
12/13/11 10:12 PM
12/13/11 10:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Thanks guys for all the support (& input). Sounds like I should be sensible & get the regular stealths either bare or complete (preferable) & a critical inspection of my choice.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133248
12/13/11 10:21 PM
12/13/11 10:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
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Quote:
Thanks guys for all the support (& input). Sounds like I should be sensible & get the regular stealths either bare or complete (preferable) & a critical inspection of my choice.
Not me I would go with the supers. I have a ache to get some but not anywhere in my budget. Go big especially planning for the 535. Then you can cam down some and still have the air you want, instead of trying to get air in when the ports are to small.
If you home port though look at there photos on the web because there are some THIN spots in the casting.
my vote if for the supers.
Last edited by kilroy; 12/13/11 10:22 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: kilroy]
#1133249
12/13/11 10:37 PM
12/13/11 10:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Dammitt Kilroy  I just may have to as Capitol 1 wants to send me some plastic but the quality control issues are worrysome but 471 said they have a warranty avail which might be good preventative medicine
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: kilroy]
#1133251
12/13/11 10:55 PM
12/13/11 10:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Yeah they've been beat up a fair amt (on here) but we are (pretty much) about posting probs to be solved rather than noting how many houses Jimmy Carter built in a given year. The salesman was nervous when he picked up the ph as I did punch in 1167 1st but when I started conversing he calmed down when realized I was not a telemarketer nor was intending to get in his a$$. As a person who spends more time than I am comfortable admitting to in Harbor Freight I have no significant prob w China stuff and tho I am as patriotic as the next guy (I think), but so much stuff is being outsourced these days that I'm (pretty much ) used to it & am (much) more concerned with getting quality & that is declining everywhere.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: tboomer]
#1133253
12/13/11 11:22 PM
12/13/11 11:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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Boom I have alot to consider
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133255
12/14/11 03:11 AM
12/14/11 03:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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The thing with a new head that has to be ported I would like to see or hear of someone that has done a set to see where the problem points are(thin areas to the water).... or is it worth it to get them CNCd... I dont like going into a port job without any knowledge of the port... and most likely your valve wont be the proper length required(just guessing) also who makes rockers for the head and price.... I just dont know anything about those heads 
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133258
12/14/11 11:18 AM
12/14/11 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
Do the stealths use the same length valves as a stock iron head?
do you have a flow bench ? Have you ported Ebrock RPM's in the past with good results ?
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: lewtot184]
#1133259
12/14/11 11:19 AM
12/14/11 11:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
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alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
why not just use a set of 88cc edelbrocks? pistons will fit with little to no machining. sell the manely valves, and happy motoring.
88cc Ebrocks are OPEN CHAMBER heads ... BAD choice unless he already had a shortblock built with KB step head pistons sticking .060-.100 above the deck.
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1133260
12/14/11 11:22 AM
12/14/11 11:22 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Dammitt Kilroy I just may have to as Capitol 1 wants to send me some plastic but the quality control issues are worrysome but 471 said they have a warranty avail which might be good preventative medicine
Ya , make sure you get them all done and figure out in something like 45 days ...  ...
471 said he had to pony up another 400 out of pocket to replace his defective head if I read in incoherent post correctly...
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1133261
12/15/11 02:20 AM
12/15/11 02:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
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My vote is for Victors personally. The super stealth heads are intriguing, but I don't like the super thin spot next to the pushrod hole. The less thin spot by the bolt hole doesn't bother me as it can be sleeved (as can the oil passage to the rocker shaft) but it's time consuming and a pain without the proper equipment. You already need to get .650 offset rockers so there's another reason to go Victors. I don't think the standard stealths should even be a consideration on an engine that large. I'd rather see you run cast iron stuff to save your pennies so you could afford good heads later, but that's just my  According to their website the super's use stock length valves and based on what I've seen with mega ported perf RPM heads, 345 cfm isn't impossible by any means, so I assume these would also be capable of that or more due to the wider pushrod restriction. As I said, intriguing, but I'd rather see a bunch of others experiment with them before I throw down the cash for a set. Just for comparison sake, I did a decent valve job, bowl blend and gasket match on a set of max wedge victors that flowed 355 cfm at a reasonable .650 lift and that could be achieved in three or four hours. On the RPM's that flowed 345, I spent three or four hours on one port and it hit that number at about .725" lift and went turbulent. Also had a 2.250 valve. Dollar per headache, the victors are the winners. Look stock while still performing fairly well (but not as good as the victors), the super stealths win in that department.
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1133263
12/15/11 06:24 AM
12/15/11 06:24 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
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This 535 RB is going to be a daily driver pump gas (87 octane) 65 dart. Extremely conservative cam. That's the plan so far unless my mind changes
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1133265
12/15/11 10:27 AM
12/15/11 10:27 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
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Quote:
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alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
why not just use a set of 88cc edelbrocks? pistons will fit with little to no machining. sell the manely valves, and happy motoring.
88cc Ebrocks are OPEN CHAMBER heads ... BAD choice unless he already had a shortblock built with KB step head pistons sticking .060-.100 above the deck.
john, the OP said he had kb pistons. the only kb 451 pistons i know of have quench domes. the 88cc edelbrock is a perfect fit for kb quench domes, .
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: lewtot184]
#1133266
12/15/11 02:06 PM
12/15/11 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,992
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
why not just use a set of 88cc edelbrocks? pistons will fit with little to no machining. sell the manely valves, and happy motoring.
88cc Ebrocks are OPEN CHAMBER heads ... BAD choice unless he already had a shortblock built with KB step head pistons sticking .060-.100 above the deck.
john, the OP said he had kb pistons. the only kb 451 pistons i know of have quench domes. the 88cc edelbrock is a perfect fit for kb quench domes, .
You may have missed his other sillyness regarding the use of that piston , cut the dome for zero deck with a closed chanber head.
I don't know how hi that quench dome is on that piston , he may have too much piston to head which can be worked around by cutting the heads which may bump compression too high ???
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: JohnRR]
#1133267
12/15/11 02:41 PM
12/15/11 02:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
lewtot184
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Quote:
Quote:
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alright from scratch what I have is a set of NIB Manley 3/8 2.14/1.81 valves, a pair of bare 915's. a pair of bare blasted 452's a pair of cruddy 452 take offs complete. A 451 coming together and a 535 RB next (have block/4.5" crank). Top priority right now is heads. The KB pistons have the tall machinable dome & no idea where my height is going to fall but want to run pump gas & definitely want .040" quench. Double R I had just assumed that if the dia is not an issue and can ream the guides then I assumed the height would be the same/close. The "supers" have seats/guides installed & I'd have a guy ream the guides and I'd port them myself. That's the plan stan (so far). I'd think the larger supers would be the way to go unless you guys persuade me otherwise
why not just use a set of 88cc edelbrocks? pistons will fit with little to no machining. sell the manely valves, and happy motoring.
88cc Ebrocks are OPEN CHAMBER heads ... BAD choice unless he already had a shortblock built with KB step head pistons sticking .060-.100 above the deck.
john, the OP said he had kb pistons. the only kb 451 pistons i know of have quench domes. the 88cc edelbrock is a perfect fit for kb quench domes, .
You may have missed his other sillyness regarding the use of that piston , cut the dome for zero deck with a closed chanber head.
I don't know how hi that quench dome is on that piston , he may have too much piston to head which can be worked around by cutting the heads which may bump compression too high ???
my thoughts were; if you have a quench dome piston use a non-quench head. the dome can be milled for closed chamber heads; just a hoop i wouldn't jump thru. to me this is a simple project made difficult.
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Re: "stealth" or "super stealth" heads which to get??
[Re: dogdays]
#1133270
12/15/11 06:21 PM
12/15/11 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,902
Athens, Greece
Pyper70
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I am glad that when people say "Buy American...Support the US worker" people go and buy the Chinese stuff...Yeah I am guilty too...I buy Chinese stuff but I also don't live in North America...but when it comes to my car...I don't skimp out on parts. I bought my 4.15 Crank from 440 Source when he was just one guy, working out of a garage in San Fernando Valley with 4 shelf units full of BB heads. I spent the extra cash on the "other" heads... Just my
Family owned 1969 Charger R/T DualQuad 440/727/GVO/3.55s
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