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Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127540
12/18/11 07:37 PM
12/18/11 07:37 PM
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bethlehem pa
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mikemee1331 Offline
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Dude, i'm feeling horrible about this mess cause i feel like i talked you into switching over. i wish i had some solid help for you but i don't. could your gauge issue be a loose wire on the alt or a slipping belt? the 2 things should not be connected to each other(timiing too high and gauges going funky)

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127541
12/18/11 08:52 PM
12/18/11 08:52 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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I have not tried a standard light but the motor runs like crapt above 1600rpms. If it is just the light, then it will still run like crapt above 1600rpms even with anoter light. This is why I think that the timing is advancing too much causing it to run like this. My hight idle (1400rpms) was showing 60 degrees so I am guessing that it is in the low-mid 60's at 1600rpms.

I will try and track down a standard light to rule that out.


What if there is enough differences between the FBO box and the MSD box and the 54 degrees that I am seeing is actually correct? I did not move the distributor during this swap and I assumed that I would not have to just in a box swap. What if I am wrong about that?

You did talk me into swapping the wires and I am glad that you did. I think that I had the wires wrong on the new connector that I added and I had electrical tape covering them so I did not see it before today. I will check my alternator wires.

Thank you both.

Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/18/11 08:56 PM.

1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127542
12/18/11 09:00 PM
12/18/11 09:00 PM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

I have not tried a standard light but the motor runs like crapt above 1600rpms. If it is just the light, then it will still run like crapt above 1600rpms. This is why I think that the timing is advancing too much causing it to run like this.
I will try and track down a standard light.
What if there is enough differences between the FBO box and the MSD box and the 54 degrees that I am seeing is actually correct? I did not move the distributor during this swap and I assumed that I would not have to just in a box swap. What if I am wrong about that?

You did talk me into swapping the wires and I am glad that you did. I think that I had the wires wrong on the new connector that I added and I had electrical tape covering them so I did not see it before today. I will check my alternator wires.

Thank you both.




For the time being... look at this as 2 separate
problems... fix the timing then go back to the
gauge issue... the gauge issue could be as simple as
a voltage regulator or a diode in the alt

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127543
12/18/11 09:12 PM
12/18/11 09:12 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I have not tried a standard light but the motor runs like crapt above 1600rpms. If it is just the light, then it will still run like crapt above 1600rpms. This is why I think that the timing is advancing too much causing it to run like this.
I will try and track down a standard light.
What if there is enough differences between the FBO box and the MSD box and the 54 degrees that I am seeing is actually correct? I did not move the distributor during this swap and I assumed that I would not have to just in a box swap. What if I am wrong about that?

You did talk me into swapping the wires and I am glad that you did. I think that I had the wires wrong on the new connector that I added and I had electrical tape covering them so I did not see it before today. I will check my alternator wires.

Thank you both.




For the time being... look at this as 2 separate
problems... fix the timing then go back to the
gauge issue... the gauge issue could be as simple as
a voltage regulator or a diode in the alt



good
, sound advice! no, there should not be any jump in timing just because you changed ECU. what happens with the wrong timing light is multiple flickers which makes it appear like your balancer is slipping. or you get nothing at all. now if you try solid core spark plug wires, watch out! it looks like a disco ballroom down there!

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127544
12/18/11 09:21 PM
12/18/11 09:21 PM
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I am using Firecore wires so I assume that these are good. Maybe the voltage issue is what is causing the engine to run poorly the higher I rev it?

I may pull the alternator and the voltage regulator and have them tested. But I will check the wiring to both first.

thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127545
12/18/11 09:29 PM
12/18/11 09:29 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

I am using Firecore wires so I assume that these are good. Maybe the voltage issue is what is causing the engine to run poorly the higher I rev it?

I may pull the alternator and the voltage regulator and have them tested. But I will check the wiring to both first.

thanks




I think of it the other way... too high of timing
will cause it to break up at higher revs OR its
starting to cross fire... get the timing set at about
34 to 36 degrees total(and you shouldnt need 25
initial) about 16-18 then the rest with mechanical
then more with vac for cruising

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127546
12/18/11 09:39 PM
12/18/11 09:39 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Mr P:
I believe that you wrote that this is the light that you are currently using?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLA-FR1001/

I am going to return my second dial back and if this is a known good timing light, then I will swap my current unit for this one.

Thanks


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127547
12/18/11 09:45 PM
12/18/11 09:45 PM
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something else you might want to check out before you go changing stuff. for your piece of mind, pull your #1 plug and verify that at TDC your rotor is pointing where it should be. i don't mean that to sound insulting but that's where i would start

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127548
12/18/11 10:58 PM
12/18/11 10:58 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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Mike,
No offence taken. The engine ran perfect before the ECU swap so I am assuming that my issues are from my own wiring or from the MSD box installation.
The last ECU was not reliable and I chose this box. I will check the wires around the alternator and trace them back to the firewall to see if there are any issues. Maybe another timing light will give me some insight on the timing.
What is weird is the ammeter bouncing around. It did not do this before the ECU swap. I am wondering if the box is doing something that is making the ammeter and the volt gauges act up.

Thanks again.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127549
12/18/11 11:33 PM
12/18/11 11:33 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

Mr P:
I believe that you wrote that this is the light that you are currently using?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FLA-FR1001/

I am going to return my second dial back and if this is a known good timing light, then I will swap my current unit for this one.

Thanks




Yes thats the light I use now days and of all the
lights I own I like that one best... just slide it
over the wire and your done


Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127550
12/19/11 08:36 AM
12/19/11 08:36 AM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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I ordered that light and some timing tape. In a few days I will be able to confirm the timing.
Thanks Mr P.

Tonight I plan on checking the wiring on the alternator to make sure something has not come loose.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127551
12/19/11 09:02 PM
12/19/11 09:02 PM
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bethlehem pa
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the MSD box wouldn't effect your gauges. messing with the wiring probably did. unless you are drawing power for those gauges from something tied to the ignition. where did you say the lighter red power is hooked to? the heavy red is on the starter, right? anything else on the starter power line?

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127552
12/19/11 09:35 PM
12/19/11 09:35 PM
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YO7_A66 Offline OP
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I was checking my alternator wires and I found that the field wire connector for the two dark blue wires was loose enough to move back and forth. I found that the mounting screw for the male stud came loose so I grabbed my screwdriver and snugged it up. A couple of weeks ago I was moving the heater hoses around and I must have snugged up the alternator harness too tight and once the engine started idling it must have pulled on that electrical connector and loosened it up. I moved the harness and tightened it up so it will not move against the wire connectors. I also cut off both of the field wire original electrical terminals because they were old and loose and I replaced them both. HOPEFULLY this will yeild some good results on my ammeter/gauge issues.

I have the heavy red wire going to the positive battery cable and the heavy black wire going to the negative battery cable.
The 12v MSD wire is fed from my dark blue RUN and the tan CRANK wire and my ""volt gauge is also spliced into this area"". If the volt gauge is going to cause an issue, then I will just pull it out.
I rerouted the MSD coil wires up to the cowl just to get them away from everything electrical for testing.
I ran out of time tonight so I did not get to start it up. I might have my new timing light tomorrow or Wednesday and then I will check the timing again.
Thanks a bunch everyone and I have my fingers crossed.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127553
12/19/11 10:35 PM
12/19/11 10:35 PM
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Quote:


The 12v MSD wire is fed from my dark blue RUN and the tan CRANK wire and my volt gauge is also spliced into this area.



hmmmmm................

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127554
12/19/11 10:48 PM
12/19/11 10:48 PM
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I asked the MSD tech about having the volt gauge wired in there and he said that it would not be affected by the box. I hope that I can keep it wired up but I am not sure yet.

My plan is that the next time I start up the car and I still have the gauges going crazy, I will disconnect this volt gauge to see if the ammeter and the battery voltage gauge clear up.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127555
12/20/11 08:14 PM
12/20/11 08:14 PM
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another suggestion is to move the heavy red from your starter and put it on the starter relay. that's where i have mine.

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: mikemee1331] #1127556
12/20/11 09:47 PM
12/20/11 09:47 PM
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My heavy red wire is on the positive battery cable. Thanks.

I have an UPDATE:
I swapped the distributor wires (again) and I used my new advanced light (Thanks Mr. P) and I now have good initial timing again. It showed 22 degrees with the new light. So the ECU swap to the MSD only changed by 2 degrees. COOL!! Thank you all for your patience on that one.

----------------------------------------------

Even though I found the loose connector at the altenator, my ammeter is still bouncing around at idle the same as before (just left of straight up to the middle of the +). But, the two voltage gages are now showing 14v +/- 1/2 volt. So the volt gages cleaned up allot (still jumping at idle rpms from 13.5 to about 14.5) but still not as solid as before. At 1400rpms the ammeter and both guages are solid.

Note: After I was done, I shut the car off and put the battery charger on the battery and it started at 75% and went to 100% within a minute or two.

Any suggestions on the electrical issue?

Thanks again for your patience.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127557
12/20/11 09:55 PM
12/20/11 09:55 PM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

My heavy red wire is on the positive battery cable. Thanks.

I have an UPDATE:
I swapped the distributor wires (again) and I used my new advanced light (Thanks Mr. P) and I now have good initial timing again. It showed 22 degrees with the new light. So the ECU swap to the MSD only changed by 2 degrees. COOL!! Thank you all for your patience on that one.

----------------------------------------------

Even though I found the loose connector at the altenator, my ammeter is still bouncing around at idle the same as before (just left of straight up to the middle of the +). But, the two voltage gages are now showing 14v +/- 1/2 volt. So the volt gages cleaned up allot (still jumping at idle rpms from 13.5 to about 14.5) but still not as solid as before. At 1400rpms the ammeter and both guages are solid.

Note: After I was done, I shut the car off and put the battery charger on the battery and it started at 75% and went to 100% within a minute or two.

Any suggestions on the electrical issue?

Thanks again for your patience.




Change your regulator

Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1127558
12/21/11 08:45 AM
12/21/11 08:45 AM
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I will swap that out.

Thanks again.


1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: MSD-5 Install Qustions [Re: YO7_A66] #1127559
12/21/11 07:11 PM
12/21/11 07:11 PM
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bethlehem pa
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Quote:

My heavy red wire is on the positive battery cable. Thanks.

I have an UPDATE:
I swapped the distributor wires (again) and I used my new advanced light (Thanks Mr. P) and I now have good initial timing again. It showed 22 degrees with the new light. So the ECU swap to the MSD only changed by 2 degrees. COOL!! Thank you all for your patience on that one.

----------------------------------------------

Even though I found the loose connector at the altenator, my ammeter is still bouncing around at idle the same as before (just left of straight up to the middle of the +). But, the two voltage gages are now showing 14v +/- 1/2 volt. So the volt gages cleaned up allot (still jumping at idle rpms from 13.5 to about 14.5) but still not as solid as before. At 1400rpms the ammeter and both guages are solid.

Note: After I was done, I shut the car off and put the battery charger on the battery and it started at 75% and went to 100% within a minute or two.

Any suggestions on the electrical issue?

Thanks again for your patience.


sweet! now i don't feel like a D-bag for tell you how great MSD ign's are

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