Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: Pyper70]
#1112790
11/15/11 03:39 PM
11/15/11 03:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Why not just buy that System1 filter for $190 bucks with the filter that can be washed...No need for the hoohah of buying a new one...Just put it in your dishwasher and call it a day.
Yo Moe ... but you have a shorter "day" with a toilet-tissue piece ... and it SURE IS NOT at a cost of almost 200 beans ....
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: dOrk !]
#1112791
11/15/11 03:46 PM
11/15/11 03:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183 Eden, Texas
Strawdawg
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
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and that biodegradable toilet paper we use today will clog up all the small leaks you may have on your engine. Depends for cars.
Steve
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: dogdays]
#1112796
11/18/11 06:56 AM
11/18/11 06:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285 Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Quote:
FULL DISCLOSURE NEEDED
CompSyn, does everyone on this board know you are an Amsoil dealer?
Could this be why you are touting your own product?
Don't your posts belong in the FOR SALE section?
R.
It should be obvious to anyone that he is a dealer. All you have to do is click on his name if it is not that obvious to you.
On the other hand, he never, to my knowledge, tries to get anyone to buy from him, or from Amsoil, but, he does bring tech data to the table to support his statements.
Seldom does anyone refute the data he presents. I don't see any problem and I do appreciate his efforts to present data rather than making claims followed by a plea to buy something from him.
Thanks! Appreciate that Strawdawg.
Quote:
Now on to the important stuff: I am a mechanical engineer at a power generating station and for the last six months have been formulating a plan to bring my facility's lubrication system up to speed into the 21st century. I have been reading everything I could get my hands on about lubrication and filtering. Here is what I have found so far:
Recent research shows that particulate much smaller than the clearance of the bearings does indeed increase wear. The target filter size seems to be heading towards 3 micron absolute.
Recent research shows that varnish is particulate and can actually be filtered out of the oil.
Oil coming from the manufacturer is relatively dirty. As said in one of the quotes cited by CompSyn it is possible to filter the oil in a system to be CLEANER than new. So to think you gain in cleanliness by changing the oil is wrong. The proper industrial procedure is to filter the oil INTO the application.
Water is very bad for oil. It reduces film strength greatly. It causes additives to drop out or to become catalysts for oxidation of the oil. It can do other bad things as well, and all at less percentage than it takes to make the oil cloudy. So by the time yor oil looks like a milkshake the oil has been severely compromised for a long time.
Much of motor oil particulate has traditionally come from ingested dust. That is helped by an air filter. But there are other mechanisms active in the crankcase that can also form particulate.
We are experimenting with dessicant breathers on our oil tanks. We are also using a 3 micron absolute filter on our hydraulic oil in a "kidney loop" arrangement. This has reduced the particulate loading between one and two ISO cleanliness grades, which is HUGE.
I am in no way associated with AMSOIL but it seems to me from my reading that the synthetic medium filters (like Amsoil) are definitely better than ANY paper or cellulose filter. To me, this seems to be a fact.
If you need a better filter is for you to decide.
R.
That's right on dogdays.
One willing to dig into the science behind modern tech lubricant filtration will discover the same thing, 1950s technology paper oil filters are not the best we have available today. I'd also add that there is more than one manufacture producing glass media oil filters for automotive applications which is why I speak in general terms. I will add that some are made with "micro-technology", and others with "nano-technology". Research the differences in construction if you like.
Also, with regard to dogdays comments, there seems to be a fine point in filtration for automotive applications. Mr. Morrison claimed he saw evidence through personal experience that lube filtration capable of filtering oil to 5 microns or below could also begin stripping the Viscosity Index Improver (VII) out of the oils additive package. Apparently, lubricants used in industrial applications don't rely on the VIIs that automotive engine oils utilize, so this is not an issue in most of those industrial applications.
But yes, dogdays is also correct that there are automotive oil filters on the market today that can filter motor oil to a point of cleanliness beyond that of the brand new oil coming out of the quart bottle without stripping the additive package out of the oil.
Mr. Morrison went on to say that his, "ISO cleanliness is reduced from 18/17/15 to 14/13/11", when comparing the OEM paper oil filter to the alternative glass media oil filter he used in his testing.
Most astonishing of all, Mr. Morrison went on to say that,"my used engine oil is cleaner than the oil which came out of the quart bottle", again referring to the motor oil being filtered with the glass media oil filter.
I don't know, call me crazy but when a lubrication engineer specializing in filtration speaks out about his real world test findings, I figure he may know something a little more than an automotive mechanic, or a famed race car driver, or the guy behind the parts counter or even the smartest of smart Internet experts.
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: CompSyn]
#1112797
11/18/11 01:40 PM
11/18/11 01:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533 Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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Quote:
I don't know, call me crazy but when a lubrication engineer specializing in filtration speaks out about his real world test findings, I figure he may know something a little more than an automotive mechanic, or a famed race car driver, or the guy behind the parts counter or even the smartest of smart Internet experts.
Now that's just crazy, you could use facts and evidence to prove whatever you want. Don't get technical with us, everyone knows them Frams is junk, it says it all over the internet.
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: Fury Fan]
#1112798
11/18/11 05:25 PM
11/18/11 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419 Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Personaly I think the differance is splitting hairs (except price) between the fancy expensive glass filters and the paper ones (not counting FRAM). With any decent filter and reasonable maintnance most engines will last longer than the car any more, how much longer do you need the engine to last? We use a generic filter from O'reilly that is a re-painted wix that costs $1.66 it is way cheaper than the glass ones and the engines last longer than the cars.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: TinCuda]
#1112800
11/18/11 06:14 PM
11/18/11 06:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 297 Oklahoma
TinCuda
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 297
Oklahoma
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Nobody asked what I needed the filter for but here it is.
Don't look at the oil filter. That is going in the trash.
I have a way to go before I try to start her up. There isn't any oil in it yet.
.,
(O O {]{]{]||[}[}[} O O)
1971 Plymouth 'Cuda 440-6
{||O||}
2000 Yamaha V-Max
(O O [========= SRT] O O)
2011 Dodge Challenger SRT 392
.
Making as big as a carbon footprint as I can!!!
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: TinCuda]
#1112801
11/18/11 06:34 PM
11/18/11 06:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336 South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
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Quote:
Nobody asked what I needed the filter for but here it is..,
Check way back early on in thread. That's exactly what I was scolding everyone about... Everyone wants to throw in their 2 cents without a nickle's worth of thought first.
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: Commando1]
#1112804
11/18/11 07:20 PM
11/18/11 07:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822 Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,822
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Nobody asked what I needed the filter for but here it is..,
Check way back early on in thread. That's exactly what I was scolding everyone about... Everyone wants to throw in their 2 cents without a nickle's worth of thought first.
...yet TinCuda is heeding the collective advice and tossing the Fram in the trash!!!
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: Mopar Grandpa]
#1112805
11/18/11 07:41 PM
11/18/11 07:41 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,322 St. Louis, Mo
318 Stroker
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,322
St. Louis, Mo
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Quote:
Save the cost of a Happy Meal one week and go buy a filter from your local Mopar dealer. Problem solved. Why worry over the cost of an oil filter? How much money do you spend on things you don't need?
Don't know how much Happy Meals cost in your neck of the woods, but here they would have to be mighty expensive to equal the cost of a Mopar oil filter. I was buying the long filter at the Mopar dealer, for my small-block.
With tax, 27.00...
I finally wised up after buying three of them, and I now use Wix.
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: Fury Fan]
#1112806
11/18/11 09:42 PM
11/18/11 09:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843 Suffolk,VA
ireland383
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 843
Suffolk,VA
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Quote:
And I get to say it, as I frequently do...
Up next -- Green bearings!
Or Ford 9" vs. Dana
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Re: Fram oil filter. Where have I been?
[Re: my73beepbeep]
#1112808
11/19/11 02:39 AM
11/19/11 02:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183 Eden, Texas
Strawdawg
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Eden, Texas
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Probably a good idea...I saw one fail a month ago...but whether one believes they fail more often than some other brands, or not, they are still cheaply built and don't flow as well as better brands...all one has to do is cut one open and cut open a good brand and compare how small the oil passages are from the inlet holes to the filter media. Then cut open a Wix, Baldwin, etc. and see the difference.
Steve
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