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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: bcrproducts]
#1109439
11/09/11 12:44 PM
11/09/11 12:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
smokinwoody
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12,339
somwhere
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Quote:
Hi Guys
I am in the works again to handing the product line to another well respected Moparts machinist. The first time did not work out and that was a major setback. CRE is no longer in business I guess the times have been hard on Mike and Dale. There website went down a while back and have not heard a thing from them in months. So the only option for a true bolt in Girdle kit that will truly do what is is supposed to is the one Tom myself Dan and a few others designed here a few years ago and that is the BCRproducts one. Being in Canada was just too much work shipping to the US and sourcing all the components neede to build this setup. I promise this time it will happen and the guy who is taking BCRproducts over has a great reputation and has build some very custom parts for all of us who love BB Mopars. That is is about all I can do to hint who as it is not my place yet to disclose the new manufacturer. I will do all the preinspects to ensure quality control so it will happen and the pieces will be of the same quality as before.
Greg
glad to hear this Greg...I would like to have your product...I definitely like the way the main caps are tied into the block using the stout girdle to tie it all in as a unit...
when can we see these units hitting the street and how do we order or is this forthcoming when the secret(kidding) manufacturer has em made.. 
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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: BradH]
#1109443
11/09/11 05:04 PM
11/09/11 05:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still. 
Brad , I'm pretty sure haven't looked at the spec in some time, that the studs use a higher torque spec, this is what distorts the main bore and caps.
That said I did put studs in and didn't have the bottom end touched. I assembled the engine, crank spun freely, but I never ran it. Since then that mistake on my part has been corrected on the subsequent build using the same block, but I also changed the main caps to ductile pieces.
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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: JohnRR]
#1109445
11/09/11 07:53 PM
11/09/11 07:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
maximum entropy
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,080
organ
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Quote:
Quote:
Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still.
Brad , I'm pretty sure haven't looked at the spec in some time, that the studs use a higher torque spec, this is what distorts the main bore and caps.
That said I did put studs in and didn't have the bottom end touched. I assembled the engine, crank spun freely, but I never ran it. Since then that mistake on my part has been corrected on the subsequent build using the same block, but I also changed the main caps to ductile pieces.
same here. i just finished one that didn't need align honing. it checked darn fine. the addition of studs and girdle didn't change a thing. on this one, anyway.
for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: maximum entropy]
#1109446
11/09/11 08:09 PM
11/09/11 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,976
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still.
Brad , I'm pretty sure haven't looked at the spec in some time, that the studs use a higher torque spec, this is what distorts the main bore and caps.
That said I did put studs in and didn't have the bottom end touched. I assembled the engine, crank spun freely, but I never ran it. Since then that mistake on my part has been corrected on the subsequent build using the same block, but I also changed the main caps to ductile pieces.
same here. i just finished one that didn't need align honing. it checked darn fine. the addition of studs and girdle didn't change a thing. on this one, anyway.
It checked darn fine ??? Meaning it's close enough to call it good ? I never checked the housing bore, didn't have the tools then. What was the torque spec of the studs vs. the bolts?
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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: BradH]
#1109448
11/10/11 01:34 AM
11/10/11 01:34 AM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
If your main caps are still installed w/ bolts rather than studs, I don't think there is anything you can do that will just bolt on to increase the bottom end reliability.
Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still.
The reason studs typically change the bore is because they use more of the threads in the block than bolts do. It doesn't always happen, but is a good idea to check. I'm not a believer in stud girdles that don't touch the center of the cap. The crank is trying to push the cap down and it tends to oblong the bearing cap. Having a girdle does nothing to stop this unless it's actually pressing against the cap in the center. This is why splayed caps work so well on engines that can use them. The bolts pre stress the caps by pulling them in a direction different than the direction the crank is trying to push them.
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Re: BOTTOM-END GIRDLE KIT???
[Re: dodgeboy11]
#1109450
11/10/11 11:23 AM
11/10/11 11:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,279
bcrproducts
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
Quote:
If your main caps are still installed w/ bolts rather than studs, I don't think there is anything you can do that will just bolt on to increase the bottom end reliability.
Not being a machinist, I'm curious why you need to have the main caps align honed when switching from bolts to studs, considering the caps fit into the main registers and the hardware is just there to strap 'em down. Yeah, I know, that's an over-simplified view... but still.
The reason studs typically change the bore is because they use more of the threads in the block than bolts do. It doesn't always happen, but is a good idea to check. I'm not a believer in stud girdles that don't touch the center of the cap. The crank is trying to push the cap down and it tends to oblong the bearing cap. Having a girdle does nothing to stop this unless it's actually pressing against the cap in the center. This is why splayed caps work so well on engines that can use them. The bolts pre stress the caps by pulling them in a direction different than the direction the crank is trying to push them.
Have to totally dissagree with this part of your comment "Having a girdle does nothing to stop this unless it's actually pressing against the cap in the center." Tying the whole bottom end together via our system has huge strength benefits. I work as a trainer for the industry and discuss engine technology with some of the brightest engineers in the world and all have agreed that a well designed cap and girdle "system" adds significant strength to the bottom end. Just look at any modular OEM type of girdle sytemsm none of them have a plate that touches the top of the cap in the center. If you understood how engines load the caps you would realize that a girdle no matter how thick touching in the center does little to nothing in the deflection of reciprocating or linear loading. The girdle is there to stop movement mainly in load paths before and beyond vertical when the power stroke is at it's highest in regards to load path shock. Remember after about 40 degrees after TDC the power stroke is done--think about the angle the rod is on at that point and the load path direction. The average Honda Civic exerts a load of approx 2200 psi on the head of a piston on the power stroke. Times that at least by two to four for a v8 race engine and you can see why the advantages are there with a truly built system. I agree most girdles are useless such as the Mancini CRE and others as they do little to tie the whole system together. They do work but with little benefit comparitively.
Just me two cents 
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Randy B. 
Since I'm not tearing the bottom-end apart..just inspecting the caps for "walk".. and rod and main bearings for wear,the girdle system hunt is for another day/year! Now...have to do some research on some "unbreakable" pushrods! 
