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Piston and head gasket failure #1050185
08/10/11 01:00 AM
08/10/11 01:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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New Braunfels, TX
This past weekend of racing I had a problem with my car. First pass it ran 11.16 @ 119mph which is about normal for 4500 DA. Second pass the car slowed and really labored down the track to 11.57 @ around 115 mph. On the second pass it also kicked the breather out of the valve cover and oiled the under side of the hood. I put back in the
breather and limped back to the pits and loaded up on the trailer.

I tore the car apart tonight and at first only noticed the head gasket burned between #4 and 6 cylinder. After I turned the motor over to check the pistons I noticed # 6 was burned on the edge. I am assuming the piston burned up first then the head gasket. What do you think?

I had ran the car with nitrous earlier in the year around May. I thought I was conservative on the tune up every time. For a 100 shot I dropped the timing from 32 to 26 degrees and jetted 53N 47F with 5 1/2 psi fuel pressure. The plugs looked good. They were light and the timing mark was about an 1/8" from the tip. With this tune up the car went from 11.05@ 120 to 10.44 @ 127. I also tried a 150 shot once. I pulled another 2 degrees(24 degrees total) and rejetted for 65N 59F. The car only picked up a tenth and no mph. I thought this was do to the converter being too loose. The shift light stayed on from when I shifted to second and stayed on the rest of the pass. I only made the one pass, since it was no real improvement and have not sprayed the car since.

What gets me is I have made at least 50 passes since then and the car ran has ran normally. Is it possible the piston has been melted this entire time?

6771906-piston1.jpg (117 downloads)
Last edited by 416challenger; 08/10/11 01:42 PM.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050186
08/10/11 01:01 AM
08/10/11 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
mopar
416challenger  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
Picture 2

6771908-picture2.jpg (140 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050187
08/10/11 01:01 AM
08/10/11 01:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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416challenger  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
Picture 3

6771910-headgasket.jpg (124 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050188
08/10/11 01:35 AM
08/10/11 01:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
dodgeboy11 Offline
super stock
dodgeboy11  Offline
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Posts: 1,025
Las Vegas, NV
The breather being blown out was a result of the piston being burned up. For whatever reason that cylinder was not happy. Were you running plugs that were too hot? What kind of intake manifold do you have? I've seen dual planes that have really funky cylinder contribution. One cylinder runs rich and cool, the one next to it runs lean and hot. My point being it takes some work to make a dual plane happy sometimes.

Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050189
08/10/11 03:10 AM
08/10/11 03:10 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,151
Las Vegas
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afxcoronet Offline
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Las Vegas
Damn Josh, that sucks...Well I know of a car sitting in the trailer looking for a driver...Goodluck getting it back together.


Taking over the World one win light at a time.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: afxcoronet] #1050190
08/10/11 08:48 AM
08/10/11 08:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 348
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boscosis Offline
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Is it possible that there was some initial piston damage on a nitrous pass to develop a hot spot on the piston that got worse every time the car was ran?

Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: dodgeboy11] #1050191
08/10/11 09:08 AM
08/10/11 09:08 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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The spark plugs are Autolite 3922 and the intake is a Victor single plane.

Last edited by 416challenger; 08/10/11 09:11 AM.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: boscosis] #1050192
08/10/11 09:15 PM
08/10/11 09:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,293
Rock Springs
Bob_Coomer Offline
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Rock Springs
Quote:

Is it possible that there was some initial piston damage on a nitrous pass to develop a hot spot on the piston that got worse every time the car was ran?



Bingo
Id say the damage occurred on the last NOS blast.... The engine was on the verge of failure... And the thrashing later pushed it over the edge.


[color:"red"]65 Hemi Belvedere coming soon [/color]
[color:"#00FF00"]557" Indy engine 1.07 60ft 144mph in the 8th 2100 lbs package [/color]
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: Bob_Coomer] #1050193
08/10/11 09:47 PM
08/10/11 09:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
I've had a blown small block for 27years. Your picture of both the head gasket and the piston look familiar. I did find the cure. I haven't failed a piston or head gasket since 1991. In fact, a few years ago I replaced the block with an R Block and used the old pistons. Detonation caused by too much timing. Start with much less. My bet is performance won't be affected at all. Mine wasn't. I went down the trail of low compression and going WAY rich on the carbs,it didn't help at all. I learned by the time I bought my 3rd set of pistons.
Good luck Doug

Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: Bob_Coomer] #1050194
08/10/11 09:50 PM
08/10/11 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 550
Ma
Voluster Offline
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Ma
Those jet tunes you have are still pretty rich

I would say you hurt it with the juice a while back and now it just started to show.

you must have seen oil in that hole in the last 50 passes?

Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: Voluster] #1050195
08/10/11 10:54 PM
08/10/11 10:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441 Offline
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Leon441  Offline
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Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Just a little rich maybe. But, come on guys we ran those awfull .073N/.082F tunes for years pulling 8 degrees from 36. That's 28 degrees and more nitrous. And a ton more fuel.

Those old tune ups were rich I'll admit but if you were even close on motor the stuff lived. But, I can tell you a head gasket that does not have a fire wire around the cylinder like a felpro 1008 is useless with any amount of spray on a smallblock.

What are you waiting for get the pan off and put a new piston in and a set of Cometics. Chop Chop they will be calling you to the lanes in about two hours.

While you got it in the garage studying trying to find the answers to life. Check your timing marks with a dial indicator on the piston. Go a specified distance down each way with the piston and check your timing pointer. This could be throwing you off on what you think you have for timing.

Leon


Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: Leon441] #1050196
08/11/11 12:12 AM
08/11/11 12:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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416challenger  Offline OP
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New Braunfels, TX
I tore the motor apart tonight. The only problem piston was the one that was shown, all others looked great. All the rod bearings look great too. The mains showed some wear, but not sure of the cause. The #6 cylinder was really clean, no carbon on the piston or head. What caused this? I have a couple pictures of the piston, head and main bearings.

6773364-Cylinderhead.jpg (53 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050197
08/11/11 12:14 AM
08/11/11 12:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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416challenger  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
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New Braunfels, TX
Piston Picture 1

6773367-piston3.jpg (78 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050198
08/11/11 12:14 AM
08/11/11 12:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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416challenger  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
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New Braunfels, TX
Piston Picture 2

6773368-picture4.jpg (64 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050199
08/11/11 12:15 AM
08/11/11 12:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
mopar
416challenger  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
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New Braunfels, TX
Piston Picture 3

6773371-Piston6.jpg (62 downloads)
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050200
08/11/11 12:16 AM
08/11/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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New Braunfels, TX
Main Bearings 1

6773372-Bearings1.jpg (64 downloads)
Last edited by 416challenger; 08/11/11 12:17 AM.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050201
08/11/11 12:16 AM
08/11/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 415
New Braunfels, TX
4
416challenger Offline OP
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New Braunfels, TX
Main Bearing 2

6773374-bearing2.jpg (68 downloads)
Last edited by 416challenger; 08/11/11 12:17 AM.
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: 416challenger] #1050202
08/11/11 11:15 AM
08/11/11 11:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Az
My guess: #6 hole was lean - melted the piston. Definitely not enough gasket. Probably marginal before you ever put the gas to it. Going to a Fel-pro 1008 won't make it ether. I can shoe you a pic of a 1008 that was in the process of failing in my 408 - with about 60 runs on it - and no NO2. Any power adder at all and you gotta go with a MLS type gasket. Studs aint a bad idea at that point also. JMO. The bearings look like they were a little starved for lube. Do the backs look like the fronts and do all the mains look like that? If so, you might have some block (saddle bore) issues??


Fastest 300
Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: Crizila] #1050203
08/11/11 10:59 PM
08/11/11 10:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,835
MI, usa
dvw Offline
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dvw  Offline
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MI, usa
Quote:

My guess: #6 hole was lean - melted the piston. Definitely not enough gasket. Probably marginal before you ever put the gas to it. Going to a Fel-pro 1008 won't make it ether. I can shoe you a pic of a 1008 that was in the process of failing in my 408 - with about 60 runs on it - and no NO2. Any power adder at all and you gotta go with a MLS type gasket. Studs aint a bad idea at that point also. JMO. The bearings look like they were a little starved for lube. Do the backs look like the fronts and do all the mains look like that? If so, you might have some block (saddle bore) issues??



Mine ran the cheap Fel-Pros with no failure after I reduced the timing. They went for years with no tear downs or maintenance.
Doug

Re: Piston and head gasket failure [Re: dvw] #1050204
08/11/11 11:58 PM
08/11/11 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,616
Kissimmee Fl.
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dusturbd340W5 Offline
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I got a real nice 416 for sale


70 duster full chassis super pro 416 CNC Indybrock heads 727 w/brake

best so far 1.212 60 6.219 in 1/8 at 110.88 9.768 at 137.81 1/4






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