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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1046638
08/07/11 02:12 PM
08/07/11 02:12 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
The reason that I asked if an ECU can handle a non ballast setup is because when I called FBO and told D that I was using his ECU without a ballast and with a Mallory 12v coil, he said that the ECU will burn up.
This bothers me because I have the manufacturer saying that it will burn up but so far it has not. D knows his ignitions!! I only drive the car about 30-45 minutes at a time so maybe it would on a longer drive.
I am cosidering his new ECU/12v coil and keep my existing items as a backup.
That is exactly what I have seen. People put out information and real world use doesn't support it. I lean towards some engineer looked at the drawings and thought it "could be an issue". Then everybody has ran with it.
When I discovered the MSD instructions for the coil in my glovebox, I also noted that it said that the coil MUST not be mounted horizontal, unless it is epoxy filled. Mine wasn't and had been mounted horizontal long before I got the car. I left it that way and I'd say it had over 10 years and countless miles on it when it left a couple of months ago. Car left here on a hot day and was driven for at least two hours to the guy's home. I got word a month later he was still very happy with the car. Folklore says that he should be pretty mad 
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1046639
08/07/11 02:22 PM
08/07/11 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
Sinitro
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,439
So Cal
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Quote:
The reason that I asked if an ECU can handle a non ballast setup is because when I called FBO and told D that I was using his ECU without a ballast and with a Mallory 12v coil, he said that the ECU will burn up.
This bothers me because I have the manufacturer saying that it will burn up but so far it has not. D knows his ignitions!! I only drive the car about 30-45 minutes at a time so maybe it would on a longer drive.
I am cosidering his new ECU/12v coil and keep my existing items as a backup.
Keep in mind that the brand will take a conservative approach.. The reason is that if something fails people will come back and complain/bad mouth things about their products on the internet..
A short drive of 30-45 minutes is not a real test but take a 2 hour drive down in Phoenix in 112 degree heat,
now guess what the temperature of the ballast resistor is... 
IMHO...
The bottom line is that the quality brand ignition parts available today are more capable of handling 12V compared to previous generations.. As long as one avoids the Chinese junker line called P** C**p, or one of the later Orange boxes..
Just my $0.02... 
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: Sinitro]
#1046640
08/07/11 08:57 PM
08/07/11 08:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
IronWolf
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
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It's always a good idea to get advice from this board, then go ahead and experiment with your own ideas. There's always some bad advice (Mopar Myths) though. I've been ranting about ballast resistors for years. But, I believe in the "Scientific Method".
My experimental results :
I run a chrome box with a .25 ohm resistor , and a MSD Blaster 2 coil. Nary a problem. I have run the .25 resistor with an orange box with no problems , either.
The fact is, the parts houses sell these crap 1.5 ohm resistors ( and maybe 1 ohm, I don't recall). Want to be less than optimal, then run those. Granny loves them.
My Mopar ECU is mounted on a standoff. No melting of the potting material. I have been informed that steel is not a good conductor, but the air flow behind my standoff appears to help.
During the heat of a race ? Think about it - those high values will retain heat and resistance , and deliver less current to the coil.
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: charger_dart]
#1046642
08/25/11 11:48 AM
08/25/11 11:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
bee1971
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,810
Sobieski Wi
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Man there is alot of conflicting answers here
First things first
1) You guys do realize the MSD Blaster 2 Coils that most of us buy (8200-8202-8203)coil already has .7 ohms of resistance built into the primary side
2) You guys do realize the (8200-8203)coil that has the supplied ballast resistor of .8 ohms is to bee used only with POINTS STYLE IGNITION SYSTEMS
BALLAST RESISTOR IS NOT NEEDED WITH THE MOPAR ELECTRONIC IGNITION because the coil already has a .7 ohm resistance built in !!!
So adding the Mopar .25 ohm resistor to this or the supplied .8 ohm ballast resistor = Total of .95 ohms or 1.5 ohms of resistance to the positive side of coil
Note: This Blaster Coil is supplied with a ballast resistor. If your application uses a points
distributor, the ballast must be used. Late model ELECTRONIC IGNITIONS or an MSD
Ignition DO NOT REQUIRE the ballast resistor.
Note: The Blaster Coil will mount in most factory canister coil mounts. MSD also offers a Chrome Bracket, PN 8213. It is recommended to mount the coil in an upright position.
STOCK POINTS IGNITION
If you are installing the Blaster Coil with the STOCK POINTS IGNITION (Figure 1), MSD Blaster Ignition or an MSD 5 Ignition Control (Figure 2), the supplied 0.8 ohm ballast resistor must be installed on the coil positive (+) wire.
1971 Dodge Charger Superbee
2011 Ram Sport 1500 Quad Cab Deep Water Blue Loaded
Siberian Huskies
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: charger_dart]
#1046643
08/25/11 01:36 PM
08/25/11 01:36 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm running a stock (Heavy Duty 12v) coil in my daily '73 Dart without ballast resistor.
If I reconnect the ballast resistor, the car starts to stumble at idle and die when put in Drive. I probably have the wrong resistor, but since I disconnected it everything still seems to work fine.
The coil's temp climbs right along with the engine intake's temp.
Today I decided to install a MSD Blaster 2 coil (also without ballast).
After starting the engine I let it run for a couple of minutes and used my infrared tempgauge and pointed it at the coil... It was already at 130-140F and climbing. I kept the engine idling for awhile to see where the temp would end up at and it went up to around 176F when I called it quits.
To me it's obvious the Blaster coil really needs a ballast resistor when used in a daily driver.
Has anyone ever measured the temp of a coil here?
I decided to try to run my MP electronic ignition with the BR shorted as an experiment. The BB engine seemed to run better to me. It was smoother and seemed more responsive. I used a IR temp unit to measure the 12V coil's temp and it ranged from 210 on the bottom to 245 at the top. Its mounted on the intake which measured 175. I searched the net, but could not find a spec for coil temps - anybody have a clue on what is considered too hot?
Check the temp of the ECU both w/ and w/o the ballast. The ECU is "suppose" to overheat and die shortly w/o a ballast. Nothing has seemed to prove that. The temp gun may shed some light on this.
What coil are you running?
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: charger_dart]
#1046645
08/25/11 03:41 PM
08/25/11 03:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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""I am currently running a 12v coil from Don at FBO.""
Is that the new #HR COIL that he just released?
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: dnd0001]
#1046649
07/05/12 03:19 AM
07/05/12 03:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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You know Mopars electronic ign was designed by Mopar to use a ballast. They all came from the factory with one that was one or two row ballast. They went to the single ballast and took out the auxilury circuit that was ign feed thru the 5 ohm ballast and just use the one ballast to the coil. I have always run mine with the ballast because thats what Mopars eng book said.
Will it work without the ballast ?? Sure but how long will it work as they did say it can burn the ECU up. But I never tried it to see if the ECU will hold up.
All I can tell you is I run the orange MP ECU with a .75 ballast and it works great. Starts good and runs 10's without ever missing a beat. If you run it without the ballast I would keep extra in the trunk just incase it would burn up. Maybe it wont but its good to be prepared. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 07/05/12 03:20 AM.
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: 383man]
#1046650
07/05/12 02:26 PM
07/05/12 02:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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As already said, coils are voltage transformers, there are two different uses of them, step up and step down. Our cars use step up transformers for DC low voltage, high current, (check out Ohms law   )DC = direct current. They are made of solid small gauge wires wound around a piece of conductor materail to make them work,they are filled with oil to help keep them cool Cool being relative Coils usually fail because a of a broken wire, not a burnt up wire  Coils designed for multi spark ignitions have a different ratio(numbers ) windings internally than standard coils do Different loads need different parts The ballast resitor is a solid wire resitor used to reduce the voltage input into the coil, the only time it is not working is when a ground is applied to that circuit for the current to flow through the coil, once for each firing stroke, 8 times per cycle (RPM) on V8 motors Are you confused yet
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: dnd0001]
#1046651
07/06/12 02:31 AM
07/06/12 02:31 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
52savoy
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,231
State of retirement
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Quote:
Nacho
What did you use to remove the filler on the back of the ceramic resistor? The stuff is as hard as a rock.
Thanks
Use small side-cuts to break it up. Crimp and then solder a 12g wire in and reassemble..
I run an old 70's Direct Connection dist.(race-tach drive) in my '64 max wedge without a chrome box. I also use the MSD-6 and hide it behind the dash, electronic regulator and the modified ballast.
An old picture but the ignition hasn't changed..
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: charger_dart]
#1046652
10/01/14 07:28 PM
10/01/14 07:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm running a stock (Heavy Duty 12v) coil in my daily '73 Dart without ballast resistor.
If I reconnect the ballast resistor, the car starts to stumble at idle and die when put in Drive. I probably have the wrong resistor, but since I disconnected it everything still seems to work fine.
The coil's temp climbs right along with the engine intake's temp.
Today I decided to install a MSD Blaster 2 coil (also without ballast).
After starting the engine I let it run for a couple of minutes and used my infrared tempgauge and pointed it at the coil... It was already at 130-140F and climbing. I kept the engine idling for awhile to see where the temp would end up at and it went up to around 176F when I called it quits.
To me it's obvious the Blaster coil really needs a ballast resistor when used in a daily driver.
Has anyone ever measured the temp of a coil here?
I decided to try to run my MP electronic ignition with the BR shorted as an experiment. The BB engine seemed to run better to me. It was smoother and seemed more responsive. I used a IR temp unit to measure the 12V coil's temp and it ranged from 210 on the bottom to 245 at the top. Its mounted on the intake which measured 175. I searched the net, but could not find a spec for coil temps - anybody have a clue on what is considered too hot?
Bringing this topic up from the basement where I found it again;
I've been running my Blaster 2 coil for a good while now with a 1 Ohm ballast, but recently I started noticing the engine missing a cylinder once in a while while idling.
Plugs were near perfect, so checking up on the voltage at the coil I noticed it was just around a mere 5 volts.
Decided to try running the coil without a BR again but found it's temp climbing fast again while idling with an open hood. At 185� coiltemp I found that was high enough.
I installed an older, stock, but 12v rated coil, running without a BR for the time being.
The main difference since last time I tried this is that the car now has a way better charging system, which is actually putting out 14 - 14.4 volts.
I'm now looking locally for a 0,25 Ohm BR to install as I don't feel comfortable running the car with a 'glowing' hot Blaster coil under the hood.
Anyone know if you can use an E-core coil with a Mopar Chrome ECU?
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1046655
10/01/14 09:29 PM
10/01/14 09:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
goldduster318
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,482
Lake Orion, MI
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I ran a Wells replacement 4-pin ECU and an Accel Super Stock Street coil with no ballast for 6k miles and never had an issue. I currently have the FBO ECU and the FBO coil without a ballast (when I re-wired the car there isn't even a place to connect it), and 2k miles later, still perfect.
The voltage going to the ECU is always full battery voltage on a 4-pin car. Cars with the dual ballast have one side for the 5-pin ECU. I doubt the switching of the coil at 12V vs 5 by the ECU will have any effect on the life of the ECU, as it's not a high current draw there (check out the small wires).
Plenty of coils out there that can take 12V. As people have said, you don't use a ballast with pertronix, or with MSD, or with an HEI conversion.
'70 Duster 470hp 340/T56 Magnum/8 3/4 3.23 Sure-Grip
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Re: ballast resistor by-pass??
[Re: goldduster318]
#1046656
10/02/14 01:27 AM
10/02/14 01:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
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4 pins ECUs got the resistor built in inside the unit.
With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
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